The Menlo School football team is off to a 1-0 start, but not exactly the way the Knights wanted to see it happen.
Mission-San Francisco, Menlo’s scheduled opponent for Friday’s 3 p.m. season opener, informed Menlo athletic director Earl Koberlein Tuesday morning that they would have to forfeit the game due to a lack of players.
“It’s unfortunate, the kids wanted to play,’’ Koberlein said.
First-year coach Josh Bowie said the team performed well in a scrimmage Saturday and was looking forward to playing a game that counted.
“We were all slated to go,’’ Bowie said. “We we’ll roll with it and adjust, be ready to play Piedmont next week.’’
Menlo will host Piedmont on Sept. 1 at 2 p.m.
The Knights are playing in the Peninsula Athletic League Bay Division this season, with Menlo-Atherton and Sacred Heart Prep, after a few years in the Ocean Division.
M-A and SHP both travel to play Friday, with the Bears meeting Bellarmine at San Jose City College and the Gators going to Carlmont, with both games slated for 7 p.m. kickoffs.
Gunn travels to Soquel for a 7:30 p.m. start, Palo Alto hosts St. Ignatius at 7 p.m and Woodside is at South San Francisco.
Visit our Facebook page: Palo Alto Online Sports
Sadly football is a dying sport in our area. I expect over the next 5-10 years for many high schools to drop the sport entirely.
Youth tackle football needs to end. I know these kids love playing but why is this sport still happening in our schools? On average three players leave the field with injuries every game- and that’s not from pulled muscles. If three children left school with bodily injury every week we would shut down the school. It’s like child abuse- these kids are minors and we need to protect their brains, necks, backs, knees, ankles, shoulders, and ligaments. Can we just move to flag football and be done with it?
Eliminate helmets & padding to reduce football-related injuries.
Run with football & crash into people along the way.
It’s called rugby…a man’s game.
“On average three players leave the field with injuries every game- and that’s not from pulled muscles.”
Source, please? And allow me to share some documented numbers…
Here’s a sport that is hurting players – in an NIH study, 26.58% of men and 24.79% of women reported that they had sustained at least 1 concussion while playing.
1/4 of players getting concussed?!? O. M. G. Pretty brutal, right?
The sport?
Ultimate Frisbee.
Source – National Institute of Health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5846959/
***
How about baseball? Our good friends at Johns Hopkins weighs in: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/pediatrics/sports_injury_statistics_90,P02787
“Baseball has the highest fatality rate among sports for children ages 5 to 14, with three to four children dying from baseball injuries each year.”
and from Johns Hopkins:
“Almost 50 percent of head injuries sustained in sports or recreational activities occur during bicycling, skateboarding, or skating incidents.”
***
Here is a High School level study:
“Contact sports again revealed the most head injuries. Ranking first was football, 11 and 8-player combined, with 44 head injuries per 1,000 participants – a decrease of five head injuries per 1,000 participants from 2015-16. Ice hockey repeated with the second-most injuries per 1,000, with 36 (down two injuries per 1,000 from 2015-16), and girls soccer was again third with 28 head injuries per 1,000 participants (also down two from the previous year).
In fact, after football and hockey, four of the next five sports to show the highest incidences of head injuries were girls sports – girls soccer followed by girls basketball (23 per 1,000), girls competitive cheer (22) and girls lacrosse (20). Although girls basketball again showed the fifth-highest ratio, it did see a decline of six injuries per 1,000 participants from 2015-16.”
Football, with all the appropriate increased attention, awareness and knowledge, and sensitivity to head safety, is going down.
***
None of these statistics or studies show the benefits of team sports, nor do they show the benefits of football to a whole lot of boys.
Want benefits? Here’s 181 department CHAIRS of orthopedic and neurology departments… most prevalent indicator of their youth activities? Contact sports.
National Institutes of Health (again) – Journal of Neurosurgery: Pediatrics: http://thejns.org/doi/10.3171/2018.1.PEDS17640
“CONCLUSIONS
The high prevalence of youth contact sports play and concussion among surgical specialty chairs affirms that individuals in careers requiring high motor and cognitive function frequently played contact sports. The association highlights the need to further examine the relationships between contact sports and potential long-term benefits as well as risks of sport-related injury.”
***
I share the concerns of the parents above. I’m sure they also seek to ban families from having the choice of participating in soccer, baseball, basketball, riding bikes or skateboards, etc..
Oh, by the way, football is not ‘dying’. It *is* facing hysteria that is effecting numbers, surely. That hysteria will soon envelop other sports. But there is a MUCH LARGER THREAT TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF OUR CHILDREN (especially our boys, see below.)
First, let’s ask the NY Times about sports participation: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/14/sports/world-cup/soccer-youth-decline.html
“Over the past three years, the percentage of 6- to 12-year-olds playing soccer regularly has dropped nearly 14 percent…”
14% drop. Thousands and thousands of kids on a couch.
Want to know the true enemy of boyhood development? Football? Soccer? Basketball? Baseball? Bikes? Skateboards?
The real enemy: Fortnight and other video games. Rotting our children from the inside out. Get the parents of a dozen teen boys together and ask. It will shock you.
Get them off the couch and playing something. ANYTHING. Now is not the time to be taking Parental Choice from our families.
Want to offer another opinion? Look forward to it! Can you also cite numbers and sources? Thanks!
@ Bob W
What’s the word on youth ice hockey?
My son plays in a rec league & also in the streets on roller blades.
To date: a dislocated shoulder/a fractured tooth/a broken forearm/ several black eyes
Also plays HS football…place kicker & safety.
He’s no flag football weenie.
“Sadly football is a dying sport in our area. I expect over the next 5-10 years for many high schools to drop the sport entirely.”
There’s a high school in Fremont that dropped varsity football back in 2016. Only seven showed up for spring try-outs.
Might have been due to the changing demographics of the community as many residents are Chinese and East Indian.
Varsity Ping-Pong and Varsity Badminton were suggested by some parents as alternative letter sports.
A block letter in Badminton? Give me a break.
Football taught me more about discipline, teamwork and respect than all my other sports combined.
Don’t take that away from today’s kids.
“A block letter in Badminton? Give me a break.”
Badminton is a CCS championship sport (and has been since 1975). In fact, Paly has been one of the most successful schools all-time.
Badminton isn’t listed a HS sport at Paly. Never seen a Letter for this activity.
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/palo-alto-vikings-(palo-alto,ca)/sports.htm
You should try the actual Paly athletics page, not a third-party page:
https://palyathletics.com/
Badminton is listed under spring co-ed sports.
And here’s the CCS badminton history page:
http://www.cifccs.org/ccs_sports/sport_history/CCS_Badminton_History.pdf
Also note that the link provided earlier also doesn’t list swimming or track and field as sports at Paly.
“Badminton is listed under spring co-ed sports.”
Not a real sport then. More of a recreational activity.
Football was a great sport for me, so many life lessons. Looking at the evidence above, I know my boys will play if they want to play.
In an age/weight restricted league for sure. Those leagues are for average size children and in fact cater to smaller children.
See you on the field in a couple years!
Football has always been a tool to keep some kids in school. Now every hs has tutoring for their teams, really helping kids.
Local football players have played at Harvard Columbia Princeton etc..
And some school called Stanford.
The benefits of the game outweigh the risks (over amplified hysteria) present in All contact sports.
Football is the Great American game.
Should also have block letter for chess team.
The media always hyperventilates about questionable studies during August. Every year for the last decade. Where’s the studies of of benefits of team contact sports?
The healthiest period of my life was when I played football. Many of my strengths today were born, or at the least – nurtured, on the gridiron.
Posted by Parnahm, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood (and others with similar sentiments):
>> Football taught me more about discipline, teamwork and respect than all my other sports combined.
>> Don’t take that away from today’s kids.
You -assume- that no other team sport can teach discipline, teamwork, and respect, without an elevated risk for brain injuries. I think schools should look for other sports with reduced risk for brain injuries. Back in “your day”, not much was known about the risk of repeated sub-concussive impacts. Football has virtues, but, many of us think that there are other sports that share these virtues, but, without the long-term neurological risks.
QUOTE: Football has virtues, but, many of us think that there are other sports that share these virtues, but, without the long-term neurological risks.
QUOTE: Should also have block letter for chess team.
^^^^ No helmet/padding required. Physical contact prohibited.
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome the only possible chess-related ‘sports’ injury.
Football OK but too many injuries. Not a native sport for most foreign-born Asians and high school participation is not encouraged by parents.
No NFL stars from China. Better to be doctor or engineer. Longer career.
“I think schools should look for other sports…”
Like what? Ultimate Frisbee?
“You -assume- that no other team sport can teach discipline, teamwork, and respect…”
His was a declaration based upon his experience with football and his other sports. And your sporting experience revealed what, to you?
You needn’t play football or let your kids have those benefits through football. That’s fine. One wonders, however, which sport experience taught you that YOU should make the choice for other parents?
Can a HS football team win a league championship if a majority of the other teams forfeit?
This would be one way of preserving prep football, reducing head injuries and providing a block letter for active football participants.
A win-win for all parties concerned.
Posted by guest, a resident of Barron Park
>> > “You -assume- that no other team sport can teach discipline, teamwork, and respect…”
>> His was a declaration based upon his experience with football and his other sports. And your sporting experience revealed what, to you?
My experience was that there are other sports that have less risk of brain injury than football. My experience was that other sports can -also- teach discipline, teamwork, and respect.
>> You needn’t play football or let your kids have those benefits through football. That’s fine. One wonders, however, which sport experience taught you that YOU should make the choice for other parents?
My personal sports experience, many decades back in the 20th century, didn’t involve football. But, that is not relevant regardless. 21st century medical research on the effects of concussions and repeated sub-concussive impacts was not available at the time– although, apparently, some people connected to pro football knew a lot more a lot earlier than the rest of us did.
Football may have its virtues, but, other sports have the same virtues with -reduced- risk of brain injuries.
There are injury risks in most sports. I played catcher in Little League all the way through High School & American Legion. I’ve been hit in the head by the backswing of baseball bats, foul tips and home plate collisions. I have seen ‘stars’ countless times. My memory isn’t as good as it used to be but that happens to most folks as we age. I often have a tendency to forget where I parked my car because it’s hard to find a decent parking space these these days & my ‘forgetfullness’ is also compounded by the fact that a majority of cars today all look the same in terms of their body style/trim. Blame it on baseball?
Another friend played prep basketball & had two front teeth knocked out. This was before kids wore mouthguards. Even ‘non-contact’ sports have their risks.
Closing point, there’s a guy in our HS class who ran track…a non-contact sport.
Today his knees/hip are badly arthritic & he is semi-relegated to a walker.
This kind of stuff comes with the territory. Time to Man-Up.
The school that forfeits any sanctioned high school league game should be penalized in some way. After all, the other team trained & prepped for the event in good faith.
Maybe something along the lines the forfeiting school having to buy dinner for the entire opposing team (and coaching staff) that showed-up on gameday ready to play.
Invariably, the anti-football crowd brings up the NFL and their misdeeds, and conflating when talking about youth sports. They also will not link or substantiate their claims.
This is like the post above (some myth about three people get hurt every game) that are just some random unsubstantiated claims.
“My experience was that there are other sports that have less risk of brain injury than football. My experience was that other sports can -also- teach discipline, teamwork, and respect.”
Break down that statement: his/her experience about less risk – note the complete lack of detail or actual data; it’s now in the realm of anecdotal. Ultimate Frisbee? Soccer? Baseball? See the other anecdotal experiences of other above.
Then he/she takes anecdotal even further by twisting a statement from others (‘football taught me more about… than other…’) to a claim about ‘also teaches’, something he/she has no experience even playing a sport – “My experience was that other sports can -also- teach discipline, teamwork, and respect.”
***
Well, when Anon gets her/his way, the next one on the chopping block is Girls Soccer.
Then Boys Soccer.
Then Frisbee.
Then Lacrosee.
Then Hockey.
Then Baseball.
Then ??
Our kids and grandkids can learn “discipline, teamwork, and respect” in the 2028 Bubble-wrap Olympics. https://www.wlwt.com/article/its-child-abuse-cincinnati-surgeon-has-message-for-parents-of-student-athletes/22805089
***
“Better education among parents, coaches and kids is critical,” says Richard So, MD, a pediatrician at Cleveland Clinic Children’s.
“Everyone goes to football because it’s America’s No. 1 sport,” Dr. So says. But there are 30 million kids in organized sports programs throughout the country, and other sports face this problem too. Soccer, gymnastics, hockey and lacrosse — all can involve concussions.
“Believe it or not, the next sport that has the highest incidence of concussion is girls’ soccer, then boys’ soccer,” Dr. So says.
Posted by Block G, a resident of another community
>> There are injury risks in most sports. I played catcher in Little League […] Blame it on baseball?
Playing catcher in baseball may also carry a higher risk for brain injuries– but, regardless, we all know somebody who smoked cigars and lived to be 100, while, a well-known runner died of a heart attack at age 52. Anecdotes serve to remind us that “low(er) probability” does not equal “zero probability”.
However, evidence is accumulating that playing football is -probably- not good for -most- people’s brains:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5807097/
Posted by Bob W, a resident of Menlo Park, 2 minutes ago
>> Invariably, the anti-football crowd brings up the NFL and their misdeeds, and conflating when talking about youth sports. They also will not link or substantiate their claims.
Sorry our posts crossed in the mail, but, “fortunately”, I posted a link to substantiate “my claims”.
>> it’s now in the realm of anecdotal.
Precisely my point.
—
>> Well, when Anon gets her/his way, the next one on the chopping block is Girls Soccer.
Glad you brought that up. The push to professionalize youth and amateur sports at earlier ages has brought with it a big push in youth soccer for a lot more -headers-, something that used to be seen mostly in men’s pro soccer. There is accumulating evidence that headers are not good for you, and, specifically, headers are not good for girls in youth soccer.
Google scholar this: “correlation girls soccer headers brain trauma”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5928847/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577522/
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14763141.2017.1360385
And so on.
But, to return to an earlier point: certainly, ice hockey, lacrosse, wrestling, soccer, all have elevated risks. Some risk may be mitigated by changing rules and techniques. For example, some girl’s soccer coaches have started downplaying headers instead of pushing them.
“Well, there ya go again…” Gov. Ronald Reagan
You post a study, designed to test brains of former NFL players who died with brain injury symptoms, and found injured brains.
Even the study told you: “In a convenience sample…”
Worse: look at who did the study, please.
The study involved the Concussion Legacy Foundation [CLF] which took $2.7 million form WWE (pro wrestling) as of two years ago (probably more now.) https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/06/11/cozy-ties-between-concussion-foundation-and-wwe-cause-concerns/QNUhqzfn79EUPcB5GIH7nK/story.html
How many wrestlers has CLF studied?
As of the time they took the 2.7 millionth dollar? Zero.
For $2.7 million, and an unkown amount since, how many studied in total? One?
Very cozy relationship, for the Concussion Legacy Foundation and WWE.
If one keeps doing the googles on head injury and posting random studies, one will soon we have a host of greater problems, and much to learn about brain health, aging, function and safety: “… paid by Medicare, where more than one in every six Medicare dollars is spent on someone with Alzheimer’s disease.”
http://act.alz.org/site/DocServer/ALZ_BoomersReport.pdf?docID=521
Posting studies that do not include a broad, diverse sample are of limited value (“In a convenience sample…”)
Bob, of course the sample is a convenience sample since it consists of athletes who died and who either asked to be tested or their relatives did. Close to 100% of such athletes have shown damage. But, you can’t very well do a brain autopsy on people who are alive, can you? So, the question remains what would the result be if you look at an unbiased sample of living athletes?
A new MRI image processing technique is under development, Diffusion tensor imaging (DTI): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28337734. It is still too early to provide precise individual diagnoses using this technique, but, an estimate, using DTI, for the average among former pro football players, was 40%:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/12/40-percent-of-former-nfl-players-suffer-from-brain-damage-new-study-shows/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9e148a91adc1
I think that is rather concerning.
“But, you can’t very well do a brain autopsy on people who are alive, can you? “
Now you’re just pulling straw men out of thin air. No one suggested autopsying living specimens. If one was to perform a study that wasn’t using just a “convenience sample” like the one you highlighted, one might include a diverse sample from the general population that may or may not have had head trauma from accidents, sports, violence, military injury, etc.. and compared against a diverse sample from the general population.
Instead, you highlighted a study with no diverse sample, funded by Pro Wrestling, that didn’t even include wrestlers.
Now, another one of your google searches has found another study of former NFL players.
This thread is about high school. I stated earlier I am not here to defend the NFL – I find much of their past abhorrent. Please start a new thread on the NFL and I will join you.
Do you know any of these high school players going to the NFL?
When high schools start handing out block letters for things like chess, badminton and flag football we’ll know the world has finally lost its marbles.
There will be no more need for cheerleaders either. “rah rah…check that king.” doesn’t quite cut it.
Posted by Huh?, a resident of Los Altos
>> When high schools start handing out block letters for things like chess, badminton and flag football we’ll know the world has finally lost its marbles.
Why?
> Why?
Flag football is a PE activity. Chess is a non-athletic game.
Badminton…the jury is out. Might as well as cricket for those so inclined.
A tragedy related to football…
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/tyler-hilinski-suicide-details-rifle-teammates-luke-falk-tribute-washington-state-qb/10i5euchrtor61rcuc7qk17ae6
Posted by Bob W, a resident of Menlo Park, on Aug 27, 2018 at 11:45 am
>> This thread is about high school. I stated earlier I am not here to defend the NFL
Actually, it is early high school — and before — that I am most concerned about. There is a significant correlation between starting young, e.g., less than 12, and the most significant brain changes:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4371403/
There is also evidence of brain changes resulting from repeated less-than-concussion head movements due to heading, in soccer.
At this point, post-puberty male players who have completed their growth, including particularly neck and upper back muscle development, are probably at less risk than gangly awkward-age etc youth. IOW, probably the players that you think would most benefit from the “discipline, teamwork and respect” angle. I think kids that age should be encouraged to participate in non-contact sports, because their neck muscles are not strong enough to protect their heads from trauma.
Again: you are using a study of former NFL players.
Since you can’t help yourself, let’s look at your other thoughts: “I think kids that age should be encouraged to participate in non-contact sports”
How about the study listed above about 180 Department Chairs?
“Here’s 181 department CHAIRS of orthopedic and neurology departments… most prevalent indicator of their youth activities? Contact sports.
National Institutes of Health (again) – Journal of Neurosurgery: Pediatrics: Web Link
“CONCLUSIONS
The high prevalence of youth contact sports play and concussion among surgical specialty chairs affirms that individuals in careers requiring high motor and cognitive function frequently played contact sports. The association highlights the need to further examine the relationships between contact sports and potential long-term benefits as well as risks of sport-related injury.”
***
Again, you claim to think: “I think kids that age should be encouraged to participate in non-contact sports”
Please think further and tell us which sports would you like to ban from a family decision?
Girls Soccer?
Boys Soccer?
Gymnastics?
Frisbee?
Lacrosse?
Hockey?
Baseball?
Wrestling?
Volleyball?
Which sports meet your new need for upper back and neck safety? What is the line you wish to draw for parental decisions about their children?
“I think kids that age should be encouraged to participate in non-contact sports”
“Encouraged”? By what government actions?
Bob, you are ignoring the articles I referenced about soccer. The article posted by “In support of Anon” was about a -college- football player. The article I referenced most recently was about athletes who play tackle football -prior to age 12-. It says:
“There is an association between participation in tackle football prior to age 12 and greater later-life cognitive impairment measured using objective neuropsychological tests.”
“An association”. The NFL (and boxing) were the sports that generated a lot of the initial press, but, now that there is getting to be a lot more research, a major factor is emerging: the age at which young athletes begin to play contact (i.e.head-jarring) sports. Research is beginning to connect the dots:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK326724/
” The article I referenced most recently was about athletes who play tackle football -prior to age 12-”
The one you initially referenced was https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4371403/ and it clearly starts with:
“Methods: Forty-two former National Football League (NFL) players ages 40–69…” who had symptoms, that’s why they were in the study.
The sample was purely NFL players with symptoms, not a random sample that included soccer, boxing, NFL players who did not show symptoms, basketball, hockey, college players who did not show symptoms, etc..
***
I have had a difficult time scanning your posts for answers to the questions you raised with your ‘thoughtful’ posts:
Again, you claim to think: “I think kids that age should be encouraged to participate in non-contact sports”
Please think further and tell us which sports would you like to ban from a family decision?
Girls Soccer?
Boys Soccer?
Gymnastics?
Frisbee?
Lacrosse?
Hockey?
Baseball?
Wrestling?
Volleyball?
Which sports meet your new need for upper back and neck safety? What is the line you wish to draw for parental decisions about their children?
“I think kids that age should be encouraged to participate in non-contact sports”
“Encouraged”? By what government actions?
>> Again, you claim to think: “I think kids that age should be encouraged to participate in non-contact sports”
>> Which sports meet your new need for upper back and neck safety?
?? The issue is not “upper back and neck “safety”. The point of that mention, and, quite a bit of research, is, what can/does prevent TBI? Because neck strength appears to be an important safety factor, can, for example, specific neck-strengthening exercises prevent TBI? (So far, no success with that.)
>> What is the line you wish to draw for parental decisions about their children?
I would tend to favor basketball and baseball for boys, and, volleyball and softball for girls, based on the -statistics- that I have available. e.g.:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987636/
>> “Encouraged”? By what government actions?
Encouraged by government-sponsored research and education, and by wise parents.
Thank you. We both agree much research is needed.
And thanks for sharing your ‘line’ between opposing contact sports and the assumed safety of basketball and, whoops, that’s a contact sport, without protective gear, played on hardwood. You may want to google Kevin Love and his games in the ECF.
And baseball softball and volleyball are generally considered Limited Contact Sports with their own risk of all sort of injuries.
Well, at least we agree on the free choice of wise parents to choose the correct sports for their children, based on benefits and risks.
If my son wants to play prep football & has the talent to make the team, who am I to stop him or destroy any of his long-term aspirations?
Far more symbolic than getting a block letter for something like ‘varsity’ chess.
Not that that there’s anything wrong with being a chess ‘athlete’.
> a chess ‘athlete’.
There’s no such thing as a chess athlete. Chess is a board game requiring no physical skill. Purely mental & analytical.
A block letter for chess would be laughable.
I got 2 concussions from baseballs off the noggin, in middle school. Hurt like an SOB.
Anon…you are an alarmist.
I’ve coached the ‘under 12’ in football and most of these youngsters are too small or too light to create the kind of post-trauma you are referring to. The physical impact (delivered & received) is far less than that of high school, college or the NFL.
Plus the kids at this age are not as physically developed in terms of motor skills. As a result, the play is often sloppy and hap hazard. For some kids, Pop Warner football is as far as they will ever get or aspire…just like all sports (e.g. Little League baseball, youth tennis/swimming etc.).
Your concerns are based on the cumulative health effects of those who continue to play competitive, league sanctioned football.
It’s not the same for all.
Posted by Gunn Dad, a resident of Palo Alto Hills
>> If my son wants to play prep football & has the talent to make the team, who am I to stop him or destroy any of his long-term aspirations?
Depends on how hold he is, IMHO. I think kids under 14 are usually pretty dependent on their parents to help making potentially life-altering decisions. 16 is the age where we assume that people are responsible enough to drive. 18 is the official age of adulthood in most (all?) states now wrt many things. So, if age 14-17 is the transition, I guess I would expect most dads to advise their kids according to their best judgement.
>> Far more symbolic than getting a block letter for something like ‘varsity’ chess.
Why?
>> Not that that there’s anything wrong with being a chess ‘athlete’.
But, you don’t consider it worthy to get recognition? Why?
Posted by Questions, a resident of Downtown North, 15 hours ago
> a chess ‘athlete’.
>> There’s no such thing as a chess athlete. Chess is a board game requiring no physical skill. Purely mental & analytical.
>> A block letter for chess would be laughable.
What, exactly, does a “block letter” mean to you? Seriously.
Posted by Parnahm, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, 12 hours ago
>> I got 2 concussions from baseballs off the noggin, in middle school. Hurt like an SOB.
When I wrote “baseball”, I -knew- you would say that. Yet, I wrote it anyway. Please allow me to explain. We are all aware that everything we do has risks, including sitting in front of a keyboard typing instead of walking around and adding some steps to our daily total. We have to be governed by statistics when we consider risks, whether we like it or not.
And, I think the statistics, and more recently, the growing understanding of the events and pathways through which brain damage occurs, look particularly bad for football. Yes, basketball and baseball have serious risks, too. Like anything, there is a risk/reward calculation we all do. Apparently, kids at Mission High have increasingly been deciding against football. And Healdsburg. And even some locations in Texas I have read– and, you know, football is religion in Texas.
Some people posting here obviously feel that the rewards of playing football are significantly greater than the rewards of other sports. Why? For example, do you think tennis doesn’t require physical skill?
“Some people posting here obviously feel that the rewards of playing football are significantly greater than the rewards of other sports. Why?”
That’s been explained above by others. It’s explained when college educated parents, well aware of risks/rewards in various sports choose to let their children participate in contact sports that fulfill their children’s needs and passions. It’s explained by parents who have played team contact sports choose for their children (regardless of whether they went to, or played in college, the pro’s, etc..)
If you do not understand the benefits of a team sport versus your example of tennis, we probably can explain it ad infinitum and you will still lack the understanding. I’m truly sorry you never had that experience. Individual sports are fine for many; the reality of being on/in/for a team offers a different set of benefits and life lessons.
Posted by Bob W, a resident of Menlo Park
4 minutes ago
>> > “Some people posting here obviously feel that the rewards of playing football are significantly greater than the rewards of other sports. Why?”
>> That’s been explained above by others. […] It’s explained by parents who have played team contact sports choose for their children (regardless of whether they went to, or played in college, the pro’s, etc..)
>> If you do not understand the benefits of a team sport versus your example of tennis, […] the reality of being on/in/for a team offers a different set of benefits and life lessons.
I put basketball, baseball and softball on my lists, but, football (and lacrosse and ice hockey) go beyond “contact”. Some researchers use a separate category for contact sports for which -hitting- is an essential attribute. RHI – Repetitive Head Impacts, appear to be the strongest predictor of issues.
But, that wasn’t what I asked anyway. Volleyball and badminton are team sports which require great physical skill. But, they are low on RHIs– and, apparently, don’t compete with football. “Football” apparently means more than just “team sport requiring physical skill and lots of practice.” What is missing? And, no, it hasn’t been explained, even if it seems intuitive to you (all).
Now you are just trolling. Shall we look at the posts above? Please reread them.
As one rereads yours, there’s a back and forth of referring to anecdotal stories and then warnings to stick with statistics. There are also a lot of “I feel” statements. “I put” statements. “I would tend to favor” statements.
“Depends on how hold he is, IMHO. I think … usually pretty dependent on …. where we assume … … now wrt many things. So, if … , I guess I would expect …”
***
You said it best with: “Encouraged by government-sponsored research and education, and by wise parents.”
Wise parents making informed decisions for their children. Do you now disagree with your own statements, just for the sake of pattering on?
In response to Anon & her ‘why’ queries regarding a block letter for chess…
OK we’ll compromise & issue ‘block letters’ for chess BUT they will have to have a symbol (like a knight) on them to differentiate chess from a letter earned for a true athletic endeavor. Fair enough?
Personally speaking, I wouldn’t be caught dead wearing block letter for chess. *L*
Still not answered by any of the above replies: Why is football special in comparison with volleyball and badminton? They all are physical team sports requiring great physical skill.
Anon: asked and answered by others above. I’ll personally add the uniqueness of the game appeals to many (22 moving parts, highly defined plays requiring far more sophistication, discipline, reaction and teamwork, than other sports, etc..)
How many offensive formations are there in badminton? How many counters to that on the defensive side of the ‘ball’?
Perhaps we can better answer you in ways you will understand if we know your preferences: why do you prefer one sport over another?
Why does/did your son prefer one sport over another?
Share your experiences with football or other team sports?
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Why can’t you accept your own statement? “Encouraged by government-sponsored research and education, and by wise parents.”
Wise parents making informed decisions for their children. Do you now disagree with your own statement?
> Why is football special in comparison with volleyball and badminton?
Controlled aggression. I played outside linebacker in HS & strong safety in college. My family is originally from Canada where ice hockey is king. Football & ice hockey require physical ‘enforcers’ to send a clearcut message to the opposing team. It’s a key element of those two particular sports.
You don’t get that with badminton or volleyball.
“Why is football special in comparison with volleyball and badminton?”
Football is crowd/spectator friendly (which also results in higher gate and merchandising revenues).
90,000+ people are not going to show up in person to watch a badminton match…guaranteed.
How about a block letter for casino games? Like track…with different events (i.e. blackjack, poker, roulette, craps, baccarat etc.)?
No slot machines as this particular event requires absolutely no skill whatsoever.
Assign each participant X number of chips and whoever finishes on the + side wins the event.
A brass ‘tumbling dice’ pin for varsity players to add to their block letter would be kind of cool.
CCS championships at a CA-based Indian casino with the state championships held in Las Vegas.
…”Why is football special in comparison with volleyball and badminton?”
> Football & ice hockey require physical ‘enforcers’ to send a clear cut message to the opposing team… You don’t get that with badminton or volleyball.
Or in chess, the last time I checked.
> 90,000+ people are not going to show up in person to watch a badminton match…
Probably not. One recreational activity that would attract teen-aged HS interest and participation = league-sanctioned video game competition with block letters and all.
Video games have gone pro and attract stadium-sized crowds + TV coverage.
Football may be on its way out for some.
To hand out block letters for anything other than true athletic endeavors amounts to little more than a participation trophy to acknowledge having been part of a recreational activity.
Let’s not cheapen the time-honored symbolism of athletic achievement. While I don’t have a problem with girls earning a block letter for varsity volleyball, chess is definitely out of the picture (in my book) & the jury is still out on a game like badminton.
The issue…you start handing out block letters indiscrimanently & pretty soon, just about any activity becomes eligible due to our ‘evolving’ sensibilities.
Eventually there is a point of no return & the recognition becomes a joke.
Posted by Bob W, a resident of Menlo Park
>> I’ll personally add the uniqueness of the game appeals to many (22 moving parts, highly defined plays requiring far more sophistication, discipline, reaction and teamwork, than other sports, etc..)
>> How many offensive formations are there in badminton? How many counters to that on the defensive side of the ‘ball’?
Posted by PA Canuck, a resident of Palo Alto Hills, on Aug 31, 2018 at 7:22 pm
> Why is football special in comparison with volleyball and badminton?
>> Controlled aggression. I played outside linebacker in HS & strong safety in college. My family is originally from Canada where ice hockey is king. Football & ice hockey require physical ‘enforcers’ to send a clearcut message to the opposing team. It’s a key element of those two particular sports.
>> You don’t get that with badminton or volleyball.
Posted by Football Is King, a resident of Southgate, on Sep 1, 2018 at 2:38 pm
>> Football is crowd/spectator friendly (which also results in higher gate and merchandising revenues).
==
Thank you all for answering my question. I think your answers clearly state what is unique about football.
== On a related subject:
>>90,000+ people are not going to show up in person to watch a badminton match…guaranteed.
They haven’t actually been showing up to watch football either:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-footballs-growing-problem-empty-seats-1535634001
=== AND ANOTHER related subject ===
Posted by Another Day in PA, a resident of College Terrace, 11 hours ago
…”Why is football special in comparison with volleyball and badminton?”
>> Or in chess, the last time I checked.
Posted by R. Davis, a resident of Crescent Park, 2 hours ago
>> While I don’t have a problem with girls earning a block letter for varsity volleyball, chess is definitely out of the picture (in my book)
Obviously chess is not physical in the sense of football, chess can be very aggressive if approached from that angle.
“I like to see them squirm.” — (attributed to) Bobby Fischer
“Obviously chess is not physical in the sense of football, chess can be very aggressive if approached from that angle.”
Chess is not a sport or athletic endeavor.
It is a board game like backgammon. To equate chess with traditional letterman sports is absolutely ludicrous.
Posted by Once Again…, a resident of Southgate
>> Chess is not a sport or athletic endeavor.
>> To equate chess with traditional letterman sports is absolutely ludicrous.
“LOL”
It doesn’t matter to me, but, apparently it matters to you. 😉 “Check” these links out:
https://www.chess.com/article/view/is-chess-a-sport
http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-chess-a-sport
You think it is “ludicrous”, but, apparently, “debate.org” thinks the subject is worthy of a debate. 😉
A forfeiture is a cheap (and easy) way to win a game.
> the jury is still out on a game like badminton.
Badminton is not a very manly sport/game IMO. Tennis more so if a racquet is going to be involved.
Proficiency in football & baseball will always get a gal’s attention. Basketball too.
It might just be me (and perhaps coming from a different cultural perspective) but a badminton ‘stud’ seems like an oxymoron.
…It might just be me (and perhaps coming from a different cultural perspective) but a badminton ‘stud’ seems like an oxymoron.
They have their own following. Usually highly intelligent women of East Indian or Chinese descent. Unlike those in football.
Ones who can appreciate the true athleticism and gamesmanship this sport offers.
Having to forfeit a football game and giving an easy win to one’s opponent is shameful.
Suit up the JV and make them fill-in for the varsity squad. It builds character even if they lose or get creamed.