Guest Opinion: What we can do to reduce risk for our teens

This is excellent. Thank you, PAMF pediatricians. We limit electronics to TEN minutes a day for our middle schooler and he’s all the better for it: sports, family time, playing with the puppy is much better use of time than pinging away a silly screen.

Also see this CNN article: “Relax! Where you go to college doesn’t seal your fate” and my personal response to it.

http://heidirkling.com/blog/

The most interesting “successful” lives and long and winding.

thanks PAMF, all of these recommendations are great. hope the board and parents will use this input to make Palo Alto a healthier place. time to eliminate 0 period, early start times, and limit AP and extra classes.

Among graduating medical residents, PAMF is widely regarded as a very selective, elitist institution. Ask any resident in training that you know… More than half of the doctors that work there are affiliated with Stanford, UCSF, or some other Ivy-League associated institution.

To PAMF: If you want parents and kids to stop valuing big names and universities, maybe you can start by modeling your own behavior, in your hiring practices.

Listening works both ways. We are listening to our teens, but listening does not mean giving them everything they want.

I have spent a long time on here listening to all points of view. I am listening. I don’t always agree, but I am listening.

Parenting is not easy. I am listening to all the teens and I hear what they say. I understand a lot more than they think. I just wish some of them would listen to the adults too.

I often think of myself as having the mind of a teen with 20+ years more experience. But, I am listening.

As parents who has struggled for years to protect our children from the over-zealous, often destructive school homework loads, we thank you.

We must point out that the “district homework policies” are routinely flouted by teachers. School administrators don’t enforce them.

These teachers ram homework down the throats of kids, causing grief, anger, and constant family pain. These same teachers completely ignore complaints by parents. I know. I have sat in parent-teacher conferences and had the teacher refuse to even discuss the matter. It’s happened to me over and again, and neighbors too.

Yes, the teachers are being pressured by the state and federal governments. I understand that. But ultimately, if it’s a choice between children committing suicide and the wellbeing of the teachers, I hate to make that choice, but I’ll choose healthy kids.

This is why the Savethe2008.com campaign (created by locals for Gunn) featured a homework monitoring website.

In addition to the American Academy of Pediatrics, we now have our community’s pediatricians recommending a later high school start time. These are the doctors who are directly treating our children and they are saying that changing the start time of high school is one of the many things we can do to help our teens be more rested and healthy.

Although there are members of the current school board who have implied that they believe “choice” is a key component of our student’s experience at Palo Alto’s high schools, and that they are loath to interfer with each individual family’s desires when it comes to a school start time, surely a rational mind would conclude that the overall health of all of Palo Alto’s teens is more important than making sure that some families needs are met by offering advanced level courses prior to 8 am.

It is interesting to me that when it comes to choosing between the good of the whole versus the good of the individual, the members of the school board who have been in office the longest always seem to choose whichever group includes the most high achieving children. Furthermore, the “good” that they are choosing for always seems to be in the interest of making sure that our students achieve the most and go to the very best of the best colleges.

During last week’s school board meeting, Dr. McGee said that he didn’t know if he would be able to get together all of the relevant information regarding eliminating zero period academic courses at Gunn in time for the Board to have an informed discussion of the pros and cons before April 21st. Board member, Camille Townsend asserted that she didn’t believe an informed discussion could be had on this matter until next fall. Given “recent events,” as the district as taken to obliquely referring to this year’s student suicides, I mystified as to what more information the board might need to make a decision to eliminate zero period academic classes.

Many things need to change in order to shore up and strengthen our teens. Why don’t we all commit to start the change by following this list of advice from our local pediatricians?

To Dr. McGee and the School Board, The school start time ball is in your court now.

@Confused: Cara Barone, M.D. went to Tufts University med school according to the PAMF web site
Rebecca Benton, M.D., MPH went to University of North Carolina med school
Mary Ann Carmack, M.D., Ph.D. went to University of Chicago med school
Ross E. DeHovitz, M.D. went to University of California, San Diego med school
Harry L.E. Dennis, M.D. went to University of California, San Francisco med school
Erika Drazan, M.D. went to University of California, Los Angeles med school
Charlotte Drew, M.D. went to George Washington University med school
Robin Drucker, M.D. went to Stanford University med school
Allen Eskenazi, M.D. went to Johns Hopkins University med school
Kellen Glinder, M.D.. went to Darthmouth University med school
Erica L. Goldman, M.D. went to Stanford University med school
Amy M. Heneghan, M.D. went to University of Pennsylvania med school
Pamela Ison, M.D. went to University of California, San Francisco med school
Kimberly Jones, M.D. went to Washington University med school
Stephanie Lai, M.D. went to Yale University med school
Frederick (Rick) A. Lloyd, M.D. went to George Washington University med school
Kelly A. Look, M.D. went to University of Nebraska med school
Linda Strain, M.D. went to Emory University med school

Only 2 of 18 (11%) went to Stanford and only 3 of 18 (16%) went to Ivy League med schools, so no they did not all go to Stanford. The others went to good schools but not Ivy Leagues. So their point about the USA having many excellent universities and elite schools are not required is true.

One should also note that doctors by nature are more highly educated than average, so we need to look wider than doctor education. These doctors cannot help but be well-educated. But it’s true that adults in all professions can have successful careers no matter what university they went to.

Gavin Newsom and John Chiang, the top candidates to be the next governor of California went to Santa Clara University and University of Florida for college, respectively. Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton who could be the next President went to University of Texas and Wellesley College. These are the top leaders of the entire state and country. They all went to good colleges but none of them are Ivy League or “elite” schools (Wellesley has an acceptance rate of 28% six times that of Stanford).

So tiger parents (especially from overseas) and students, please understand where you go to college doesn’t matter as much as you think in the long run. It’s more important to do well at whichever college and be happy, enjoying the experience and finding your passions. Palo Alto students are doing great and all have good futures.

Dear danielle,
Confused hit *a* nail on the head I should have said. No doctor became a doctor without a certain kind of push for excellence, the same kind I imagine that’s driving many kids up the wall in these cases.

Thank you Dr. Crescent Park Dad for your contrary medical opinion. It takes courage to be the sole physician holding your view, when every other responsible and reputable doctor on earth as well as all Stanford med school and UCSF med school faculty on the other side. Hat’s off to your bravery and courage under fire. You are our own Tommaso Caccini. Thanks again for your medical opinion — it is as valid as Caccini’s views of physics!

Dear Crescent Park Dad,
The correct opinion is always the correct opinion. Nothing new about it. It’s all been said before, reiterated over and over. What I find unfortunate is that every kid doesn’t have a parent who knows what’s up and instead they have to read about it after the milk has already been split, “How to clean up spilt milk,” as if that needed a manual in the first place. Sadly, when lives are on the line, there’s no cleaning up the mess. Kids are precious cargo, the most precious cargo.
I’m just saddened is all, sir. Just very saddened. Every time I hear about another kid walking to school on a beautiful Monday morning who just doesn’t want to deal with another week because the thought of five more days is that unbearable. It just breaks my entire heart is all.

Dear danielle,
“Pushing for excellence is a good thing?” Sure, it often is. I know it for a fact. But tell that to the kids who have died. They won’t understand a word of it.

Let’s not forget our Vice President, Joe Biden, who attended the University of Delaware.

I am a mom of a child that suffers from severe anxiety/depression and has been suicidal several times in the past, despite intensive therapies. I obviously have followed these discussions carefully as I worry about my own child. Our child is not overscheduled, never has been. We have not put a high emphasis on getting As or on winning in sports. But despite what we say and do, our child sees parents that made it through very competitive education programs, have established careers. Our child sees others around him that are excelling and automatically compares achievement – regardless of what is emphasized. My child’s mental illness was not caused by the environment, but I believe the environment and biology work together here.

This is a peril of living in such an environment that is so rich in resources (beyond money). We have to actively fight in the opposite direction, we we cannot fool ourselves into believing that our education didn’t give us opportunities more easily than it would have been otherwise. Our child is smart enough to observe that.

When I was a teen I was scheduled from dawn till dusk, with school starting at 6:50 AM. I loved it and wasn’t stressed or anxious. My partner was the same way. We thrived on constant activity and challenge. And it was those attribute that provided many opportunities. The difference was that there was no expectation to be that way.

We have multiple kids. Some thrive on that kind of life, some don’t. I am not sure what the right answer is, but I generally favor things like removing zero period (even though I used it as a teen – I also went to bed by 10 PM). I think the main thing we can teach our kids is how to see their own accomplishments in light of themselves not others. It doesn’t matter that you are as good as your parent, your friend, your friend’s parents, your teacher. We need to allow them to find what they love. But those things are easier said than done, and I know we still struggle with it despite having felt the terrible impact of mental illness.

I advocate for real research and science to help us know what maximizes the benefit to the most children. Some children will lose out because they could have handled more. Some may need extra support. We can’t address everyone with policies, but we can hedge our bets through good evidence.

Confused- I echo your sentiments. I actually made a post an hour ago to the same tune and got deleted.

I will try again.

My point is that we have two big elephants in the room.

1. In Palo Alto we have a disproportionate number of parents who went to top tier schools vs other lower-ranked schools (note I did not say worse, or inferior). We also have a disproportionate number of parents in Palo Alto who are top achievers (in many cases in the WORLD in their field).
So here we are surrounded by astonishing brilliance and achievement. Awesome! (kind of )

Many many of those folks openly say how their college experience and subsequent network really gave them a leg up over people at lesser colleges/networks. They are proud of their school and had a great time during some formative years there. They fly their flags, wear sweatshirts they LOVED it. There is NOTHING wrong with this. (kind of)

Some of these parents want the SAME pathway opened for their kids. They in their heart of hearts do not think they would not be where they are today (or have a hard time imagining how they would have been able to) had they NOT attended their top tier school. I know I will get comments from people that did go to a “non-name brand school” and are here thriving. That is the exception. If that isn’t the exception then THOSE people need to be front and center talking to students and our community about their path. PLEASE SPEAK UP. I mean in public, at forums. Create a group and speak up!! They need to hear your stories.

Anyway…Hearing “all colleges in the top 200 are great” from a well meaning uber creative, open minded executive or other leader in our community who DOES have name brand school on their own resume DOES NOT ALWAYS HELP. Parents sit there all the live on day
nodding their heads in agreement in public. But on the inside they are thinking “well, that is fine for other kids but NOT MINE. That speaker and I got where we are in great part to school (and connections from it) and I want my kids to have the same opportunity”.

2.Many companies where the parents in our community work (I will not name names because perhaps that is why my last post was deleted) DO use college name as a first line of resume filtering. It’s so annoying when people deny this because it is COMPLETELY COMMON – school snobbery in the hiring process particularly when initially screening resumes is alive and well. Parents KNOW this is the truth and people are afraid to talk about it. For goodness sake my first post about this was deleted. I know first hand an example of one company that does this.

So now that this is all out in the open I want to add one more crumb for people to chew on. There are people in our community who talk the talk about reducing workloads, enforcing sleep etc. They talk about it openly. But then, sneakily at home they are NOT waking the walk. They are actually using this and saying to themselves “Ok great, other families will make their kids sleep and take lesser loads and my kid will TOTALLY rise to the top because we aren’t going to do that because MY child is special”. Readers, you know what I talking about.

I love that PAMF doctors are speaking up, I love that PAUSD is looking at the schools role in all this, I love that teens are being given a chance to speak. All of his is great. We should be in a position to turn this ship around to at least change its course by 25 degrees fairly quickly. But the fact remains that we have a community of people where a huge chunk all want the same thing for their children and this is IMPOSSIBLE. Will colleges stop accepting the kids who’s resume is so full that they obviously were living on overdrive? Will companies/industries that the majority of Palo Altans work at stop the school snobbery?

I am optimistic one minute and not the next, about much of this change happening. But I am hopeful that at least for some families who actually do walk the walk, PAUSD will put some protections in place for our kids so they can do well in school AND sleep.

It’s sports, not homework, that are the big stress and time commitment — at least in my experience, with three kids in/through Paly. Swimming and water polo have twice-a-day workouts scattered throughout the season. The kids are in the pool at 6am, waking at 5:30. They work out again 4-6pm. They’re swimming 5+ miles in a day. My kids describe the training philosophy: to overwork us intentionally so that we’re in perpetual muscle fatigue and adjust to high lactic acid levels, all so we can taper and hit top form for end of season championships. So, they stagger around and, after dinner, drop from exhaustion more nights than not. For club sports like soccer or baseball, because the teams have professional coaches who need year-around employment, the pressure is on the kids to commit themselves to the same degree — starting very young.

No two-a-day swim workouts! And try to resist the club “traveling teams” in soccer, baseball, etc.

To Swim Parent: Then tell the Paly coach that your children will not attend morning practices any longer. If he pushes back, bring in the AD. If the AD is not supportive, then go the next level to the VP of student activities. Then the Principal.

You have choices. The thing about swimming is that it’s your race time.

I personally do not subscribe to the training philosophy that is apparently in place at Paly. Even the elite PASA coaches don’t do the “10,000 meters a day or high water” training program any longer. To be frank, it is a prehistoric approach that went away over 10 years ago. Perpetual muscle fatigue is dangerous and the concept is more than outdated. Even elite athletes require rest in between rigorous sets…any training manual (any sport or fitness program) would tell you that. I am still amazed that this coach gets away with the annual 100 x 100 workout that comes after every spring break. If he is certified by USA Swimming, something tells me that he isn’t attending up to date coaches’ training classes.

Regardless – tell the coach that your kids will be showing up every afternoon for practice, no more mornings. Again, if there’s push back, just start moving up the chain one step at a time. Don’t go straight to the Principal, that will cause resentment for not following the process outlined in the Paly Athlete Guidebook.

>Posted by Elephant in the room
>
>Some of these parents want the SAME pathway opened for their kids. They in their heart of hearts do not think they would not be where they are today (or have a hard time imagining how they would have been able to) had they NOT attended their top tier school. I know I will get comments from people that did go to a “non-name brand school” and are here thriving. That is the exception.
>
>Posted by observer
>
>Let’s not forget our Vice President, Joe Biden, who attended the University of Delaware.

Thanks observer, Joe is great and a proud state college graduate. I will try again because of the tiger parents’ fallacy on Ivy League/elite colleges. Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, the world’s largest public company and one we are proud to have locally, attended Auburn University for college. His previous boss Steve Jobs dropped out of Reed College. The 2nd leader doing all the design magic there, Jony Ive, went to Newcastle Polytechnic. These are all good colleges, but none of them are Ivy League or Oxford or elite schools. There’s really nothing wrong with going to Ivy League schools but they are not necessary as you can see from example after example which is not the exception.

I will keep going as you are not convinced. The CEO of the 2nd largest company in the USA, ExxonMobil, Rex Tillerson, graduated from University of Texas, a state school. The 3rd largest company by market cap, Google, its CEO went to another state school for college, University of Michigan. Sure he went to Stanford after that, but a state school for college. I am not cherrypicking here, these are the top leaders of business, we can go on and on and the top leaders of government many went to state or non-elite schools as I already mentioned. And not everyone wants to be a top businessperson or politician so elite schools are even less important on average. I use these top leader examples to show academic perfection/college choice are not barriers to even the highest positions of power.

But “Elephant in the room” you are right, the tiger parents are deluded in their belief that only the top 10-20 colleges are acceptable and therefore putting all this crazy stress on the kids. Our last 2 governors Schwarzenegger and Brown went to college at University of Wisconsin and University of California, both state schools. Again I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with Ivy League or private colleges, but they are not necessary to reach the top.

Very interesting posts here. I see good points on both sides, but…

To “danielle,” your points would be better taken if you didn’t distort the statistics. It is true that PAMF docs are overwhelmingly from the top schools (Stanford, UCSF–you forgot to include that in your debate, and Ivy League schools). You conveniently only listed the MEDICAL SCHOOLS that they went to. Medical school is near impossible to get into, and to get into an average one, frequently you need to go to a top college.

For anyone who wants to get direct statistics, just go to the PAMF website. The vast majority of the docs are connected through an elite school, either as an undergrad, a med student, or in residency training.

Danielle, if you want to include stats, include ALL the stats, not the ones that make your point.

Also, you can go through an entire list of famous people and CEOs, and find that they came from all sorts of colleges. That means nothing. So Tim Cook went to Auburn? Good for Tim Cook. Where did everyone else in his Auburn graduating class go? That’s the real question.

Controlling the amount of home work for the high school students is important since it impacts all of them.

But the sports coaches need to have some accountability. We have coaches demanding 2.5 hours practice, 6 days a week. Although playing a sport is optional, a lot of kids like doing it, but as everything else in the area, it is hyper competitive. The school administrators should be controlling their coaches better.

As for the parents/kids who insist on the crazy times on sports because they hope to get an athletic scholarship to college, let them go to other high schools, along with the kid who want to take 8 AP classes day.

Yes, it’s not AP that’s not included in homework.
– Music in middle-school requires 100 minutes practice per week. That’s not included.
– Reading in elementary and middle-school is not included.
– Athletics in high-school is just ridiculous. That’s not included.

We need a cohesive school work policy that makes sure no child can take more than the required amount and no coach should be able to schedule more than that amount.

This includes no morning starts for anything before 8:30 and only x-minutes total amount of work including reading, athletics, practice, ….

Get rid of these loop-holes – all school work needs to be brought under control.

Oh – Another thing not even being looked at here is the potential impact of the red-shirting craze that went on for years before the start date of kindergarten was changed, and affects these kids now.

The kids in the same grade are as much as 18 months or even 2 years apart in age. This makes a huge developmental difference as kids go through puberty. It especially causes problems for some of the younger boys. The administration isn’t dealing with the academic needs of boys in particular who, as research has shown, are now suffering the most academically (not girls), much less the problem of younger boys being judged against much older boys for sports and academic opportunities. There seems to be no acknowledgement of this issue in addressing social and academic stressors and needs as well.

Seriously, folks, am I really seeing people quibble over the difference between Auburn, Wellesley, and the University of Michigan, which are all top tier schools? Seriously, this is causing kids stress?

That’s a whole different issue than from where we’re sitting, college doesn’t play into our brains or lives at all at this level. We just want to be able to set a healthier boundary between home and school, so there is a good education and free time in a day. We want to be able to have a normal relationship with teachers and the school to dialog to solve problems. We want the school environment (physical environment) to be healthier. We’d like education that supports rather than crushes creativity.

Some of the kids who ended their lives were younger, and maybe I just don’t know the right people, but I don’t see quibbles about whether Wellesley or the University of Chicago aren’t good enough as being the issue here (seriously?)

“I have two elementary school kids and the 3 mins 50 problems timed drill starts in first grade and the stress it puts some kids through is insane. My question ( and I have asked this of the administrators and teachers) what is the need to pressure kids this early on. “

This is supposed to see if the kids have memorized the fundamental math building blocks.

If you give them 50 minutes to answer 50 questions of “1 + 3 = ?” you don’t know if they have memorized the answer or are counting on their fingers.

It’s not supposed to be “pressure”, it’s supposed to see who knows it and who the teacher still has to work with.

Previous comment says volumes about peer pressure… I was told by my friend who has a student at Paly that school caters to tiger parents because of money they donate. Wonder?

Agree with resident – the attitude that comes through says volumes.

I’m fine if students want to leave the district because they can’t get a zero period and unlimited AP course.

I meant that adults should blame themselves.

Student in Palo Alto is expressing an attitude that I’m hearing all too often these days–that the high schools should cater to the top and everyone else should take their lower spot on the pantheon.

In other words, the academic zero period and piling on the APs isn’t about learning, it’s about keeping that competitive edge. That’s what “choice” is about.

All I can say is that if that’s your attitude, please pick up your toys and move or send your kid to a private school. All of us would be better off with less of that attitude.

I don’t even oppose A.P.s–they can be a good choice for a mature student–but this isn’t about that. It has almost nothing to do with the gaining of knowledge.

We have dead kids. All the “choice” types seem to forget that–seem to think that, as a community, we should wash our hands of the affair and classify those lost kids as the sort of losers who couldn’t hack it.

I hear the phrase “We’re in this together”–well, that means thinking about more than the school system that will benefit you the most in your quest for the most APs.

“I don’t even oppose A.P.s–they can be a good choice for a mature student”

Entrance requirements at non-north American colleges http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/rankings :

Cambridge: A score of 5 in a minimum of five Advanced Placement (AP) Tests in appropriate subjects
Oxford: Grade 5 in three or more Advanced Placement tests in appropriate subjects
Imperial College: 5 in Calculus BC (Calculus AB is not sufficient), 5 in Physics C, 5 in a third subject.
University College London: 5,4,4,4,4 in five AP subjects, taken in the final two years of high school
ETH Zurich: At least 3 Advanced Placement Tests, each one with a minimal score of 3 in: 1. mathematics; 2. biology or physics or chemistry; 3. one language

It is interesting to me as a teacher that so much of the discussion above places the burden for a solution almost entirely on the schools changing. There is some mention of parents, but it’s minimal. I teach sixth grade, and I constantly hear stories of my students having three, four or even more extra-curricular activities going on at any one time. Middle school! Even the PAMF letter barely gave mention to outside activities.

Where are the parents to say “No, honey, that’s too much?”

Teacher,

If you look at the data, the sad thing is that a very large percentage of our kids do nothing outside at all. No extracurriculars, no time with friends, no volunteering, no activities outside at all. In fact, if you look at the data, most of them have little to no time because of homework.

I don’t know about anyone else, but in our case, the extracurriculars are child’s choice and the saving grace, the counter to the school experience that has been so negative to self-esteem and confidence. If schools had to respect a boundary between home and school, for one, it would be nobody else’s business what kids do with their time after school, and two, extracurriculars would be a chance a lot more kids would have to unwind and shine.

It seems to me that I began to lose confidence in McGee’s ability to manage the suicides when I watched him at the last board meeting. It was the day after a student died by suicide. The very next day.

After giving a sympathetic statement and saying a few things that the district is going to do better at, he then said “OK, changing gears we have some photos of events from this week” and then proceeded ahead with a surreal and insensitive 30 minute long presentation of random and unimportant “read across america” photos (with Caswell’s obligatory reference to the fact that she and McGee went to Dartmouth slipped in nonsequitor to a reference to Dr. Seuss, because she cannot make her behavior match her words about deemphasizing elite colleges), a parade of awards and photo ops, etc.

Everyone deals with grief in different ways, to be sure. But this was really just insensitive the the horrible, heartbreaking tragedy that this entire town is living through. There were students waiting to speak, including the student board rep from Paly who broke down sobbing and begging for anything , something, other than business as usual, complete with the same mixed messages, self-praise, yay for us, yay for the Ivy, yay for the prize winners, sorry for the losers.

One day after another suicide this was chilling. The only comfort one can take in this shoddy performance is that the family surely was still in too much shock to know that this happened.

This is not normal human behavior to continue on with the regularly scheduled agenda. The district officials including school board members should have been wearing black. There should be obvious signs of mourning. All unnecessary business (Chromebooks? Website improvement?) should be postponed out of respect. Happy slideshows are totally improper. The failure to show respect is related to the failure to take this seriously enough. Retaining zero period just reveals the same sickness that the photo slideshow demonstrated.

The reality is that getting into a UC is almost out of reach for most of our students. The reason why is nothing to do with them, but with the UC system itself. For some students, reaching for a foreign University (not necessarily Oxbridge) just might be a little easier for them.

Getting into a UC should be attainable for all qualified Californian students. The reality is that there are no longer enough places at the UCs for Californian residents. Someone even suggested that it would be easier for a Palo Alto student to apply as an out of state resident willing to pay extra fees just so that they had a chance to get in. Is this really what it takes to get in nowadays?

British Universities are geared up for British students and although they are willing to take foreign students they are putting up the qualifications to make it very difficult. The UCs are actually looking for out of state and out of country applicants. Something is very wrong here.

Putting some pressure on the college application system is very necessary and is one major thing that would actually help all our students in our high schools.

“If you look at the data, the sad thing is that a very large percentage of our kids do nothing outside at all. No extracurriculars, no time with friends, no volunteering, no activities outside at all. In fact, if you look at the data, most of them have little to no time because of homework.”

What data are you referring to? How many students do not play any sport (inside school or outside school) or not involved in the journalism program or in choir or in theater or in robotics or in an outside orchestra or have a job? At some point I think I heard that at Paly something like 600 kids play sports and another 200 are involved in the journalism program.

How many kids really go home at 4 pm and do HW until 11 pm every day?

I’ve heard that the Life Skills ckass is taken by many teens as a 3-week summer course? Lets make life skills a priority and requiring a semester.
Also, let’s call on local business to hire local teens for part time work. . School isn’t supposed to be your life. It is only supposed to give you the skills you need to live your actual life. Working gets you out I to tie community and gives kids another place to thrive. Obviously less homework to allow time to work after school/weekends.

“Doers” should be PA school board. Make every dollar (high property tax) we contributed to school work.

I am so sicken tired of receiving the “grieving” message, time to start doing something for the kids, the things that matter, meaningful and work! My son is tired of the homework. If he misses it, his grade suffers. Here comes the stressed parents, as we have to reinforce the homework rules in order to keep up the good grade (if we have any energy left after all day at work and taking care of other kids). His test without homework is above average (which is good enough for us.) What is the point of homework? it should be voluntary not mandatory. There are so many other ways to teach the kids to be responsible.

If we subscribe to the various definitions of success, we can definitely have an education system which limits AP’s, for all the reasons we have identified, good bye to management by College Board or scary admonitions about not being able to get into Imperial College.

What is at odds here is that there are a variety of colleges to which students can go to, but us consumers are trying to force STEM or whatever style college/university we aspire to. Imagine if we all demanded to be ready to attend the Imperial College which does not accept AB Calculus, only BC and a score of 5. Imperial indeed.

Public school should have a very basic accomplishment which is to serve all students first. Not to first serve one style of student (choice). This plays into the argument from those who resist change because we are told we all have a “choice”, then there aren’t enough choices, and we get into battles about more choice.

Choice is a way to divide, and dividing is an issue for public school.

When was the last time that the school board launched a survey to poll the families about the effectiveness of the school system? The statistics would provide a very real picture of state of minds of students and family.

@Peter

Dauber and Godfrey are showing independence, and seen to be bringing Emberling along as an ally. The three of them make a majority. It’s not all gloom and doom.

The Weekly just did a few wonderful articles about teachers in our district who have found ways to deliver challenging courses without the homework. One AP teacher at Gunn was highlighted who found when he got rid of the homework, the students were more excited and engaged, and they were doing as well or better on the tests.

The problem I’m having here – as a parent of a child overwhelmed by homework, not doing very well in school, but also bored (as a very large percentage of our kids complain about in surveys) in school – is the way we are reacting to this as if we should restrict kids who want to challenge themselves in a certain kind of way. It isn’t what my child would choose, to spend all time on academic pursuits, but neither is it any skin off my nose that I should prevent others from having that — so long as there is a broadening of educational offerings and how the education is delivered, which we don’t currently have at all.

I don’t think we should have a zero period, but neither do I think we should restrict APs – so long as we begin soul-searching about whether each class could be taught differently, without so much homework or any at all. I also think we should consider ways to individualize the instruction for kids who want more of that intense academic path than others — it’s possible, and frankly, what they seem to crave is the grade showing they can scale that mountain well. I appreciate that – I was that kind of student, but my child and many others are not, and making education so narrow unnecessarily takes opportunities away from them. It’s just not necessary to make nonstop traditional study the be all and end all of the educational program. In fact, I don’t even think it was a good thing for me, I think it teaches kids to expect “challenges” delivered to them on a platter, instead of the messiness of real world work. The reason kids like I was should care about this is that projects are infinitely more satisfying accomplishments in the end anyway, and you learn more that sticks from doing.

Most of all, I want us to reimagine how we can make education about learning and not about grades. I look at our schools, especially Gunn, and I see, baseline, a lot of amazing kids who are engaged with the world and ready to learn. I don’t think we should be forcing them onto this narrow track of micro-judgments/scorecards, where learning quickly becomes beside the point. Nevertheless, just because I think the intense academic experience shouldn’t be the whole program, doesn’t mean I think we should remove it completely for kids who would be lost without it. But I think it can be delivered in a way that is more individualized — which would have the added benefit of making it more about the individual and less about one upsmanship.

Simply limiting APs without changing the educational system will only make everyone unhappy, won’t solve the problem for kids who need a different educational approach than the current, and at some point, things will creep back the way they were anyway.

The teacher above complained about extracurriculars, and yet it is the extracurriculars, without grades but with a challenge and freedom and resources to learn and do and have fun and sky’s the limit attitude, that have resulted in the great confidence and accomplishments and joy in doing in my child’s life. This is what school should be. Then my kid goes to school and it’s almost like the admin even resents the accomplishments outside of school, and doubles down on making my kid feel like he’s just not trying hard enough to realize he’s a failure. And they do that so well — school is such a source of stress, and they expect us to carry it into all hours of the day, even to the exclusion of outside activities that are more educational and such a great counter to the negatives from school.

For people who think the problem is parents pushing their kids to go to Dartmouth (something I don’t have any contact with yet) — addressing the problem that way is like trying to push back the ocean with your hands. Why not make a completely different educational program that isn’t about grades and in which all kids can really reach their potential/find their gifts to the world, and shine? What if class was all about learning, kids were given constructive feedback, and near the end, they were graded and shown what they needed to do to bring their work up to A-work, so that all kids got the best they could out of the class? With all the resources available today, there really is no reason to grade on a curve — we have only to reach out to many illustrious sources at Stanford to learn that lesson.

Palo Alto Parent,

I am in agreement with you about the need for more comprehensive physical and mental health care.

I am very concerned, though, when I hear the focus being placed on assessing and labeling someone as mentally ill when there are still so many environmental contributors. When a lot of kids are sleep deprived, as our surveys show, and sleep is known to correlate with depression, it scares me to think we will have a huge cohort of kids labeled with mental illness, who think of themselves as mentally ill, taking medications that can even cause suicide ideation, rather than dealing with the fundamental problem causing sleep deprivation which would result in healthy successful kids.

I worry about this especially since we have personally endured a lot of problems from the poor environmental state of our schools, personal experience with asthma and congestion from attending school that have caused poor, noisy sleep with lots of waking, and the obvious problems related to that. For some reason, even though our schools have a mandate in the bond to improve the air quality specifically, and asthma is listed in our district’s own policy as a reason for 504’s, our personnel feel it is better to put energy into denial. Even if the circumstances do result in depression, the last thing that would help would be a label that would give them permission to keep denying and never cleaning up the cause. With double-digit rates of asthma in our district, this is as big or bigger a concern than zero period, since asthma is also correlated with increased depression, school environments can not only cause asthma attacks but also the development of the disease in the first place, and recent research shows even kids without allergy and asthma have sleep problems from the same environmental problems causing asthma.

Given how easy it has been for the district to ignore things like that, it’s downright threatening to think of this issue as taken only from a health assessment standpoint. The biggest reason to care about this is that people with true clinical depression (regardless of cause) who feel it will never end are truly at risk of taking their lives to end it. When people understand they can make things better, such as by sleeping enough, it makes all the difference.

We find that if you tell the district a child is experiencing depression for a reason they don’t want to do anything about, they are very likely to do something injurious, and not likely to do something to help solve the problem. So while I agree with you in principle, the devil is in the, um, details.

Excellent statement: “You need resilience and independence to succeed here in most fields and helicopter parenting doesn’t develop that. “
Yes, there are cultural divides contributing to the Palo Alto environment.
Children mimic/copy their parents (they don’t really have a choice).
Parents needs a checklist “You might be a Tiger/Helicopter parent if you…”
Parents need to take a good look at their behavior. Are you caught up in the hype? Are you perpetuating “The Push”?

Here’s a big question for the adults in the room, how is your mental and physical health?
How are you holding up under the pressure of parenting in Palo Alto?
Mine has been greatly impacted after parenting the past 15 years in this town.
Keep it real. Look in the mirror.

Keeping it real, here’s an article about “Being an Elephant Mom”
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/12/elephant-mom-timeof-tigermother/383378/

Let’s not confuse the two.

@Reason said:

“Teachers think it is OKAY to create an arbitrarily complicated, challenging system, then send a letter home, and ta-da: everything is okay. They feel they have done their job by ‘warning’ you – ‘hey, the pressure is going up, we are about to put the screws to your kid, and we told you, so it’s okay’.

But it is NOT okay.

It is very very wrong”

Wow, Reason, this is an incredible comment. Thank you so much for saying what so many parents are angry about.

And above all, THANK YOU to the Palo Alto Online website for FINALLY giving us parents a place to speak the truth about the school system. For years now, the district has been shutting us out of the conversation. They would continue to shut us out if they could.

Please keep these articles flowing as a place for us to get to the truth of these suicides!

When one has thoughts of suicide, the conversation needs to be about providing mental health care, not eliminating zero period.

For immediate action in support of the doctors’ concerns, go to http://www.savethe2008.com and sign the “Open Letter” to the School Board and Superintendent.

UC Fan, by using UCLA you’re gaming the numbers–you picked the UC with the most applicants (by far).

Former PALY Parent, Yep, that’s pretty much it in a nutshell.

APs aren’t a choice–you listed several British universities and Zurich–yes, I noticed the first time. So, yes, I’d say my critique of your comment applies. You compared apples to oranges.

Yes, as the system currently stands, APs/honors are a part of the package for getting into top-tier schools, but mostly as a way jiggering the GPA. Fact is, one of the reasons that colleges are so keen on overseas students is that the number of American students applying is slowly dropping. The admit rates are somewhat artificial–kids are encouraged to apply for more and more colleges–but each student will, eventually, say yes to one college.

Which brings me to the UCs. Meeting the standards of the UC system and getting into UCLA are two very different things. I have many, many problems with how the UCs are currently run and how limited access to them has become. However, the issue here is not about having PA kids take more and more APs, but fixing the UC system so that it once again becomes an affordable alternative for more than the top 10 percent of California students. I think if that happened, we’d see a dramatic reduction in high-school stress levels.

I blame the UC system, actually, for a lot of this–if, say, the top 30 percent of graduating high school students in California were able to get into a UC (not Cal or UCLA, but a UC), I think our kids wouldn’t feel like they had to be duking it out for the top 10 percent of the graduating class. Instead, we’d have the hyper-motivated kids who do want to go to an Ivy/Stanford and a lot of kids (and parents) who would be fine with their kids going to a UC and having a more balanced life as a high-school student.

Ninety percent of the graduating class at Gunn and Paly will not be in the top 10 percent. Why do we have a system that deems nine out of 10 kids failures and unworthy of admission to the state university system?

Basically, the UC system needs to place a hard limit on the percentage of out-of-state students it admits as undergrads and those students shouldn’t even be able to compete for slots that should go to in-state students.

As a country, we saw our greatest economic boom and period of innovation when a college education became widely available and affordable after World War II. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. Talented kids whose families would never have been able to afford college went to colleges on the GI Bill or worked their way through.

It’s incredibly counterproductive for the American college system to have become so competitive and unaffordable.

Don’t make the mistake of projecting your beliefs and dreams on your children.
Help them to realize their own dreams and potential in what ever interests them. Learn to trust this process. We cannot all be the same.

On Children By Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

Another problem we shouldn’t overlook: rampant abuse of ADHD medicines (amphetamines) by teens in these schools.

It’s a nationwide epidemic, but especially severe in Palo Alto, Pleasanton, and other bay area communities.

Why? One reason is the kid’s desperation to stay awake to study. Also, parents and teachers push otherwise normal kids onto ADHD meds “so they can cope with the workload.” (seriously, I’ve heard those exact words many times).

Thank you PAMF doctors for this sensible advice. One thing that seems to be very hard to coordinate is time for teens to hang out together and just have fun. Teens are so busy that is it next to impossible to find a mutually agreeable time to do something as simple as a movie. One kid will have a swim meet, another will have a recital, or debate, or tennis, or play rehearsal, or a big test on Monday, and the list goes on and on. My teen spent hours fielding emails and texts to find a movie time that fit everyone’s schedule, and in the end the plan got cancelled because there was no time slot that worked. Even though my teen managed to cut down on activities to have more free time, it seems fruitless since no friends are available to hang out with.

I live in a close knit neighborhood where neighbors practically harass my children about their grades, sports performance – just endless mind numbing blather about their performance at every possible interaction.
Oh, and then they go to add about how easy the kids have it today. Blah. Blah. Blah. Looking to move on out of PA!

I’m surprised people haven’t commented very much on one of the major changes in the schools recently: the switch to the Common Core. If we’re focused on decreasing stress and anxiety among students . . . well, the Common Core is a factor in the push towards testing, testing, and testing. For those who want more creativity and freedom for children, the Common Core has been a step in the wrong direction.

Were parent-teacher conferences (and grade reports) so awful before the Common Core? They can sound like a pathology report. “Your child’s BMI is X, but I want it to be here in the Y-Z range for his age.” Do the teachers think this sounds more credible and professional? Awful, awful, awful to listen to even when a kid is doing very well. It’s about numbers and where the teacher “wants” your child to be. Literally. It is hard to hear a teacher speak about where they would “want” a child to be at a certain grade level. The teachers speak as if they can truly quantify the abilities and potential of children! That attitude, in itself, is so so horrible. Some kids will be ahead of schedule, some kids will be behind. And when a kid is ahead of schedule, the teacher might speak doubtfully about their abilities. How many people have heard something along these lines: “John probably doesn’t understand the material at this age, even though it might seem like he does.” Because the other problem with the Common Core is that all the kids must do the work at the same rate. This will be stressful for some kids and utterly boring for others, and neither group will be very happy.

Enough with the pathology reports, the simulacra of competence and authority!

The Common Core was never really authorized by experts who understand children on a developmental level. In fact, it has been opposed by many veteran teachers and researchers who have worked with children and studied their developmental stages and needs. This is another factor our community (locally and nationally) needs to consider in order to create better, happier school experiences for kids.

Are charter schools free from the Common Core?

Hooray for the doctors for making this public statement! I remember when Gunn announced their late start time. Paly had gone to a later start and block scheduling the year before and I thought finally they are giving Gunn students a break. I was dismayed to hear that the medical recommendation that PTAC brought to parents and the board in favor of the late start was being disregarded in favor of zero period academics, apparently without discussion. Everyone of our current board members campaigned on improving the social emotional well being of our students. Make it so!

Reason,

I think I should clarify. My child has tended to perform well in school, but I believe this is largely because we have held views about childhood and learning that run counter to the approach of the Common Core. We have always valued time for unstructured, imaginative play and hands-on learning: building things with blocks, drawing, learning to play an instrument, etc.

Here is Stuart Brown’s TED talk about play and its long-term effects: http://www.ted.com/talks/stuart_brown_says_play_is_more_than_fun_it_s_vital

(I’m not advocating Brown just because of his Stanford connection. Yes, enough with the academic credentialism.)

I coach recent college grads who are in distress because they can’t get a solid, meaningful job, despite being goal-driven from a young age. They sacrificed their sleep, their social lives, their or their parents’ financial security, and the halcyon days of youth to go to the best colleges.

The reality of the Silicon Valley workplace is that unless the grad is in a very high-demand field, employers often prefer to hire people with some direct, relevant work experience.

Fortunately, with good professional career coaching, grads can learn the job-search skills and strategies they need to land a desirable position.

Time Magazine reported in August 2014 about the AAP report urging later start times. According to the researchers who wrote the report their purpose based on 4 years of review of evidence based research was to galvanize communities to lobby their school boards for later start times. Dr. Owen says “to do nothing is really to do harm”:

“The evidence is clearly mounting both in terms of understanding the repercussions that chronic sleep loss has on the health, safety and performance of adolescents, and there is also really solid compelling data supporting the fact that delaying school start times is a very important intervention that can mitigate some of the impact of sleep loss,” says Dr. Judith Owens, director of sleep medicine at Children’s National Medical Center and lead author of the report.

The hope is that this statement will galvanize communities,” says Carskadon. “Now they have another tool in their tool kit, and another set of evidence and advice to take to school committees and school boards, to get communities moving on addressing adolescent sleep.”

Given the state of the data on how poor sleep affects adolescent development, adds Owens, “to do nothing Is really to do harm. The status quo of starting schools at 7:15 or 7:20 is not in the best interest of the students.”

School Should Start Later So Teens Can Sleep, Urge Doctors, Time magazine, August 25, 2014 http://time.com/3162265/school-should-start-later-so-teens-can-sleep-urge-doctors/

We need to use all the tools in our tool box to protect the well being of our children. If any community should be taking this action, surely it must be ours.

Mauricio,
While I agree with you wholeheartedly in what your post means for the benefit of kids, I have to again observe that I hear a lot about tiger parents, but I don’t witness it so much in reality. In elementary school, a lot of us (at the time) SAHM’s would hang out at the playground as much as we could, but even the moms going back to work didn’t seem like so much tiger parents. Maybe it’s a cross-town thing? But then, we’re on the Gunn side.

In my experience, there is a very frequent tendency by administrations of schools (not just ours, it’s an old story) – I’m not saying you are doing this, either, but this happens so much, it becomes a social meme – to characterize parents negatively as a power play in the relationship.

The truth is that we have a lot of kids in this district — IMHO, pretty much all, but that’s how I see people — who are what would be considered traditionally gifted, and in contrast to myths, they don’t just do well left to their own devices without any support. In fact, much has been written about gifted students and depression.

Additionally, “The myth that gifted children have pushy parents has many negative effects. It causes professionals to doubt the truth of information supplied by parents, to question parental motivations and to minimize the significance of parental concerns. The myth causes teachers to limit the extent of parental participation and to deny the validity of parental reports. Researchers, however, have demonstrated that parents are actually quite good at identifying exceptional development in toddlers, pre-school children and school age children (3, 11). In addition to their role as observers and reporters, parents have been identified as exceptionally important in the development of gifted school children and unusually talented young adults. “

Read the rest at: http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10170.aspx
“Most people understand that parents of gifted children provide many enrichment opportunities. In addition the research shows that gifted children make more requests of their parents and respond enthusiastically to increased opportunities. The children’s positive response, in turn, stimulates greater parental involvement (11).”

Again, in my experience, and given the problems I’ve seen in the district office over the years, if anything, I don’t think the parents in this district are nearly pushy enough, especially on the Gunn side of town.

When a parent is confronted with
a) a child in distress from being overwhelmed by school,
b) seriously disrupted homelife and family time/plans because of schoolwork,
c) a school telling the parent the child just needs to do things differently and that the problem is the child’s fault not the schools, often telling the parent what to force the child to do, basically —

what are most parents going to do?

I don’t blame parents for that, I blame our system. I think we need to make a system that supports families, respects a solid, healthy boundary between school and home, and innovates to ensure the education is as good or better without having to cross that line.

Underlying all of this is what’s looming over the horizon if our schools don’t change with this new world. What happened in the music/publishing/retail industries because of shifting technology is going to happen with schools, and if schools don’t anticipate and adapt pronto, it will be impossible to recover when it’s too late. In the last few years, the shift into homeschooling has been monumental, no longer dominated by crunchy religious types and nearly the same order of magnitude now as the number of kids in private school in this country.

A far higher percentage of homeschoolers who apply to elite schools are being admitted than the percentage of other applicants being admitted. The homeschoolers often are leaving the system in order to take advantage of efficiencies in learning core material, providing time to have freedom to DO other things. This gives them a huge advantage, but more than that, it just gives them more time to live life.

One of my siblings homeschooled their kids, and says the kids always take over the cooking for large family events like Thanksgiving. They’re used to is and enjoy it, because they always were cooking as part of their lives growing up and even part of their schooling. By contrast, I worked with a graduate student when I was in school who had spent his whole life focusing on nothing but studying so he had never prepared a meal for himself and felt helpless to go to a grocery store to just buy party supplies for a student gathering because he’d never been in a grocery store before.

The schools can’t change parents, and if they see that as the solution, they will fail. But they can fix problems in the school program that place undue pressure on students AND families, of which there are many. They can also hire people who live and breath to innovate and serve students (hint).

Here’s a novel idea – since PAUSD and the two high schools are not likely to change their start times anytime in the near future…how about all of those parents who are worried about their teens’ sleep habits, take charge of the situation at home?

Yes – be a parent and apply some structure to the home routine. Turn off (and perhaps turn-in) electronics at X:XXpm. In bed by X:XXpm. Asleep by X:XXpm. Worried about 0 period at either HS? Don’t let your kids do it. So easy – yet, according to so many posters, necessary sleep hours must be managed by the school district. Honestly – step up and make the changes at home – now.

The benefits outweigh any of the cons (e.g., push back from your teen or you’re no longer their BFF). And by taking action yourself, you’ve solved the sleep problem all by yourself and you don’t have to blame PAUSD for an 8:15 or 8:25 start time any longer. In fact, you don’t have to blame anyone at all!

Magic!

Short film from Palo Altans/2012 Gunn High School graduate Enzo Marc, Mark Monroe and classmates.

Dedicated to those who struggled and felt alone.
Even a small act of kindness can influence a person’s life.

Thank you to all who contributed and supported to the making of this film.

https://vimeo.com/122612143

Yep, CPD – if our schools can’t stick to their own decisions (a new bell schedule created due to the research on developmental sleep shifts in adolescents), YOYO – “You are On Your Own” parents. No partner in health here. No trust either.

Why should we trust a district that says one thing (Look what we did! later start times because we believe in healthy students and learners!)- which just made room for a “zero” period that starts even earlier than the original bell schedule?

Were they intentional in this or mindless? Either way = notsogood.

I just thought of Another metric that might be useful to know, I’m not sure if this can be determined because of privacy issues. Stanford hospital has an eating disorders clinic and hospital. How many young people are in the medical track there from Gunn and Paly? It is a kind of suicide in slow motion – mostly girls I think.

Here is a true Gunn anecdote, it illustrates some of the issues.

My daughter told me about a girlfriend whose Asian parents sat her down for a serious talk about her future. Another young Asian student the family knew had been hospitalized with anorexia/bulimia. The parents told their that the girl had ruined her chances of getting into Berkeley. They warned their daughter not to become anorexic as she would be unable to get into Berkeley too. They refused to allow her to visit or associate with the hospitalized girl. It might be contagious…

It was so outrageous, I asked the girl about it myself and she confirmed the story. Incidentally, she did go to Berkeley and is very financially successful. She talks really fast, almost pressured speech, but she seems happy. She certainly is living the Palo Alto dream with a job at a start up. Her parents now despair that she takes no interest in them and seems unlikely to give them a grandchild. They would like to pressure her on this (I think) but she doesn’t talk to them much. Not sure what it means, but interesting…

When I went to high school in a fairly typical middle class East Coast suburb in the 1980s, we had a different kind of “toxic” environment: fights frequently breaking out on campus, binge drinking and drug use, smoking on campus, bullying of the “brains” (smart kids) by the non-academically inclined, and racial and homophobic slurs.

There’s so much rage here about how awful the environment in Palo Alto high schools is here, but given what my high school experience was, I can’t help but find it almost unfathomable that it’s so horrible to be around other smart kids who care about school. Is the pressure of being around peers who study hard worse than guys pouring milk on your friend’s head in the cafeteria, a significant portion of your classmates wandering the halls stoned while failing most of their classes, and the N-word thrown around as casually as the F-word?

Some of the more upbeat posters here have reminded us that most of our neighbors are nice people, and a well-educated community like Palo Alto is a “Nerd Paradise” where kids don’t have to feel ashamed or face bullying because they’re smart. Several Gunn high school students I’ve spoken to have told me that the harsh “cheerleader-jock” hierarchy culture simply doesn’t exist at their school like it does at the typical American high school, and they love Gunn for being different in this way.

When I lived in a nearby town on the peninsula, I’d see a lot of the local high school kids around town, and many of them acted similarly to those in my high school did in the 1980s. After moving to Palo Alto, I was impressed by how much poised, polite, and yes, smart, the kids here seemed compared to their peers 15 miles north of here.

I think some of the more negative posters here are going a bit overboard in their rants against Palo Alto. You say everyone is clamoring to get out of here, but let’s face it, the current real estate market says the exact opposite.

Yes, there are teens who are struggling here. But you know what? I’d rather have my precocious, somewhat nerdy daughter enjoy the company of lots of other precocious, somewhat nerdy friends and feel comfortable for who she is. That sure beats the ridiculousness that goes on in most American high schools.

What if a student collapsed and died of heatstroke during a football practice. Then it later occurred that the entire Stanford medical school faculty wrote letters asking the district to eliminate practices when the temperature is over 85 degrees, citing dozens of academic peer-reviewed studies showing a connection between football practice in high heat and student death.

The superintendent in this hypothetical thumbs his nose at the experts because the coach doesn’t want to change his schedule and the high-power squeaky wheel parents who want their sons to play in the NFL complaint to high heaven.

Would parents deserve to know about the death on the field or should it be kept from them even as they are signing the consent form for football for the fall.

What if every pediatrician at PAMF tried to ring the alarm bell and urged the district to stop practice over 85 degrees, even publishing a letter in the paper?

For those who are interested in moving… My daughter was enrolled in a Livermore school. She started in her junior year after PAUSD previously. She was a star there. She easily qualified for UCs, but the pressure was off and she chose a Cal State because she wanted to be a teacher. Alumni are important in that field too and people tend to hire people that look like them and went to the same schools. Did you know, for example, that school districts are prejudiced against Berkeley alum?! Two HR people in different districts told her that… Clueless, apparently with no experience with normal children.

She had several offers when she finished and loves her job. Recruiters still call her. Did I mention she is mid twenties and is tenured in a district that is family friendly for the staff with kids. She is living her dream. Her district even covers health insurance for her fianc̩ Рher domestic partner I mean.

She has three PAUSD friends who finished at top UC schools and are back in their parent’s home while they finish the prerequisites for practical careers. Thank heavens Foothill and DeAnza are here for them.

Even that is not easy now. Did you know nursing schools are impacted with one in ten applicants accepted?!! It is as competitive as medical school now. We live in that jobless future we kept reading about twenty years ago. Good grief. What next? Scrambling for waitress jobs…

Some interesting comments here.

Possible suicide is only one effect that a mentally exhausted teen may attempt.

It is true to say that we have many other disorders in town, cutting and anorexia are the obvious ones. However, there is no way of counting these and the same can be said about suicide attempts. Many suicide attempts are half hearted in the sense that they are not attempted with the expectation of success. But overdoses of pain meds and various other self damaging behaviors are also things that we don’t want our teens attempting.

Getting a better overall mental health attitude is crucial.

@jerry — perhaps you didn’t like measure D and this thread is not about measure d. However whatever the faulty info is that you refer to about Palo Alto housing the info in this thread about the school board is NOT faulty. Many dozens of doctors have directly told them to stop zero period They are stonewalling whether anyone in the zero class has died of suicide which makes many of us suspicious. Look at the medical evidence and look at the district. This isn’t like measure d it’s worse. No one died of Zoning.

Although I am philosophically aligned with @Jerry, if the board votes to continue zero period against the unprecedented public statements made against it by our local medical community I suspect there will be a backlash in votes against Measure A. It will only take a small minority of protest votes to tip the scale to defeat Measure A.

It takes a while outside of Palo Alto to confirm how toxic it was. It’s kind of funny to read some of the posts trying to lobby and protect zero period, AP classes, counseling changes, etc., but then you remember that students, children, are actually dying.

Dear Parent (of another pa neighborhood),

I love what you are saying (love the possibilities and optimism). The balance you speak of is something the Challenge Success program at Stanford seeks for its participating schools. Both Paly and Gunn are participating Challenge Success schools and have been on and off for over 10 years.

This fact shows up on district powerpoints and in presentations on social-emotional learning. We’ve had CS leaders speak to auditoriums full of parents about engagement and redefining success – for years. What we have to show for all this time and participation is piecemeal – donuts. And we’ve had to beg and fight for every crumb. Eight years to get a calendar that finally gave Palo Alto teens the winter break every other teenager in two counties had had for years. And thanks to CS and PAHS leaders, “late start” became a reality for high schoolers in 2010 – only to be abused by other leaders with the installation of a special period called “zero”.

If you believe there’s a chance that this district is truly willing to think creatively and bring balance, engagement and health back to our learning environments in a grand overall plan – I’m with you fellers. Let’s do it. But in the meantime the latest crumb thrown our way – zero period – has health implications that, morally, cannot be ignored.

I hope you’re right – that we still have it in us to do great things for our children.

I’m with you, Parent(s).

“Would property owners be willing to risk a reduction in the price their home could command in the market when they decide to sell by pressuring the school district to shut down zero period academic classes or tell parents and students that there’s a limit on the number of AP courses a student can carry in PAUSD?”

The health and well being of the community’s children versus greed? I sure hope so.

Jerry – without hesitation, yes. ALL children matter – more than home prices, more than “standings”.

But it’s a false argument at the start – as PA schools won’t lose a thing or drop a notch by ending an unnecessary 3 year old phenomenon called zero period. On the contrary, asking for an end to zero period IS supporting our schools.

Health and learning go hand in hand. Or so the science says…

Our current state can only hurt “the market”.

Just to clarify, I didn’t mean you YOYO, I agree with you, our current state can only hurt a lot of things.

I don’t believe that the community is being well-served by many of its institutions at this point and the debate over zero period is a nice example of how our institutions are failing us. It is well-known in the community among students, parents, and teachers that zero period may well have been a factor in one or more of the recent suicides. It cannot be ruled out. That is known. It is discussed on soccer sidelines, in Peets, and at PTA meetings. Scores of physicians and scientists have written to the school board urgently asking them to eliminate this needlessly dangerous practice. Only one member of the board seems to be heeding this medical advice.

The rest of them retreat to talk of “choice.” But as I demonstrated above, in the absence of full information there is no choice. This is a basic theory of markets. The demand for zero period is inflated by the lack of information. If there was full information about the hidden dangers of this good, demand would likely drop below the point that it was an economically viable option.

It is ridiculous to discuss “choice” when the district is concealing necessary information about the so-called options. Would you like this cheap car? Sure. Ok, but I am hiding the fact that it will explode if it is rear-ended at a low speed and kill everyone inside. Enjoy your Pinto PAUSD.

To @Another, nobody is saying all “Tiger Parents” are Asian, but there definitely are Asian parents who are Tigers.
It is well known there are numerous cram schools for Asians which emerged in the past couple decades or so around Silicon Valley, these add pressure to all of us with their emphasis on “winning” a game of school.
I have a flier I saved for one that was handed out first day of school at PALY when my older was a freshman (not recently), bragging with names, photos and AP scores and elite college admissions, ALL the students pictured for this tutoring service were Asian. The school was aimed at Asians, clearly, to give them a leg up in advance of crucial tests, but it was clear the time and money commitment were long-term. There was nothing remedial about it.
I am sure PALY administration had no idea these fliers were being handed out right by the (old) PALY tower theatre as new freshmen were being dropped off at school the FIRST DAY by their parents.

Thanks, Reason and Chinese-American.

the real point, sure, you and some others may not be saying that all Asians are in the “Tiger” category. But in many posts on this board and on the Palo Alto boards on Facebook, many travel down the slippery slope from “Some Asian immigrant parents are way too intense and narrow regarding academics.” to “There are so many Asian kids in our schools, and their warped values are hurting our schools.” to “This town was so great 50 years ago, and now the teeming yellow hordes of rude, unassimilated Asians have ruined this place. I’m can’t stand Palo Alto anymore and am moving to Idaho where I can be around others who share my superior, non-grade-grubbing Euro-American heritage.” Seriously, I’ve seen several posts that come pretty close to that last one. And when people allow their thinking to descend to that point, I suspect they’re not differentiating between Asian immigrants and Asian Americans.

Yes, the stereotypical Asian parents exist. But your Asian immigrant neighbors may be a lot more multi-faceted than you give them credit for. Sometimes reaching out a bit and engaging those from unfamiliar backgrounds in conversation can go a long way. When I’ve actually made the effort to talk to these parents at my kids’ schools, it’s been a positive experience, and I’ve come away a little embarrassed at my own prejudices and preconceptions. It’s very easy to vilify an entire group from a distance, but much harder when you force yourself to get to know them a bit.

Nobody should equate “tiger parents” with “Asian.” Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of parents of every ethnicity who push the schools to “be more rigorous” (translation: slam the kids harder and harder every year).

The motivation of pushy parents isn’t just to make their own kids higher performing. They also want a culture of extreme competition, where “the weak and underperforming kids” are seen publicly to fail.

This motivation has completely poisoned the modern school system. Local school districts and teachers have convinced themselves that they are “rigorous” which means, essentially, that they are justified in ignoring the needs of less competitive kids. All these parents and teachers want to change the local public schools into high-stress private schools that get more funds and preferential treatment by college admissions boards.

They want to be Elite. They want to be rigorous. And they will screw over any parent or kid who doesn’t fit their mold. If you aren’t a top performer, they literally *want* you to move to another city.

They will never voluntarily stop, it is an institutional addiction at this point.

My Thoughts,
I wish I could “like” your post about 1000X.

As a biracial child of immigrant parents (one from Asia) who does not look Asian as an adult, I have both been on the receiving end of a lot of ugly racism as a child, and witness to people’s unwitting expressions of racism when they do not know my background. (When I was a kid, we didn’t live where there were any other biracial families, and it was still illegal in many states for my parents to have even been married).

Chinese-American and Another, I wish I could “like” your posts about 1000X too.

In regards to stereotyping about education, in my experience, parents in this district regardless of race or background tend to choose Ohlone or Hoover based on how they perceive the child’s educational needs, including the need for structure or the need for more freedom and PBL. Whether they are right or wrong about a child’s needs is another thing, but typical parents are usually trying to make adjustments and paying attention. I think the program at Ohlone is a great opportunity, but I do not perceive it as driving or having driven any kind of cultural shift among parents. Parents don’t really have a constituency on these lists – I’m really tired of ALL the stereotyping, it’s hurting constructively moving forward.

My experience with this parent community has been of caring concern and involvement, and consideration of new ideas about education. I hope in the soul searching, our success of having a spectrum of educational approaches at the elementary level will be extended up into high school. It never made any sense that PBL stopped after elementary/6th grade.

Here is some factual information about British University entrance/admission.

Firstly, the US and UK education systems are very different in styles of teaching, methods of feedback (normative and personalised rather than continuously summative), amount and type of homework and “graduation” requirements.

The UK has a system of public examinations which are moderated to ensure marking and assessment is equal across the country. 9th and 10th graders follow a curriculum leading to qualifications in up to 10 subjects. In junior and senior years 4 reducing to 3 subjects/classes (A Levels) are followed leading to graded qualifications. This means that subjects are followed in greater depth and rigour than even (yes!) AP classes. There is the time to do this because the number of classes is so much reduced.It is very unusual to hear of kids taking 4 “A (for Advanced) levels”
The criticism in the UK is that this forces kids to specialise too early. But it is the reason UK unis are asking for high APs, sometimes with a freshman year at an American Uni. UK first degrees are also 3 years rather than 4. Oxbridge have their own additional entrance exam and famously fearsome interview.
UK unis are also less interested I think in co curriculars so there is much less pressure to “carefully curate” your outside interests against an “unknowable future”.
This is not too say kids in the UK are not under pressure to do well – in fact I naively imagined coming to the states would remove my student from that pressure of public examinations. From the frying pan into the Fire!

There is no College sports to speak of in the UK either and so no one is trying to get a scholarship (of course the funding is different and maximum tuition for UK students is £9000)- you only really focus on Sports if you really like it and most competitive/serious sport is done outside school in Clubs. The focus on sport in state schools in the UK has more of a public health slant – they are trying to get kids – particularly girls – to take up a sport they will continue on with in later life and therefore the emphasis is more on fun and increasing participation.

On Sleep issues, there is a sleep clinic as part of PAMF. My student has had sleep issues since babyhood and the teenage years have only emphasized their night owl circadian rhythms. Following their advice my student wakes at 6.30 am every morning including weekends in an effort to move the bodyclock earlier. Its tough but it has worked, helped along with a small dose of melatonin and turning the internet off at 9pm. Its not perfect but it has helped hugely. Yes, I wish school would start later, but in the meantime there are things parents can do.

I saw this today:

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” ― Albert Einstein

Don’t know if Einstein really said it, but so what. Words to reform by.

Every child has their gifts. We should be focused on helping children find and grow them, and grow where they are weak, too.

OPar,
You bring up a really important deficit that we should address in this district: The opportunity to engage in non-league sports. We need casual, intramural sports, so kids can play pick-up baseball games without having to dedicate their weekends to competitions, etc.

Sports are such a stress-reliever — unless they are turned into a source of stress, too.

So I suppose earlier I was referring indirectly (how British!) to the fact that there is little opportunity here to play sports for fun. I agree with Opar and Parent on this. My kids and the kids of other European families I know have no chance of joining in with US sports such as Football, baseball, basketball and lacrosse after the age of 11, because its not recreational and they have no prior experience.
My student posted a great “sub Viking” time in the 400m on her first time round the track at PALY. I had imagined coming to the fantastic facilities at PALY would be a great opportunity for her to enjoy her love of track and field, but she won’t try out because “it’s just too much every day”. Now sadly,she doesn’t run at all.

Unfortunately it’s not just sport. At a recent middle school music concert, I had expected at the finish for the Principal to address the audience, fulsomely praise the children for their fantastic playing, tell them of the joy and solace that music making can bring and urge them to keep music in their lives, (a stock speech where I’m from). Instead a district coordinator of some sort asked everyone in an Honor Band to stand to be applauded and explained how hard the audition had been. Cue more applause. How does that make the rejected 50 11/12 yr olds feel? Where are the places to make music for pleasure? There is an option at Jordan to join other groups, but guess what? – it’s at zero period 7.30 am.

I’m a complete newbie at this College Apps game. Sure, you are working within a system but there are plenty of things a School District can do without disadvantaging kids.
If its right that Colleges will scale applications differently if APs are limited by the District then surely that’s a no brainer? It doesn’t have to mean that students aren’t or can’t be challenged. There are many ways to challenge students, help them think deeply, widely, critically and creatively. And – if you want to sell it to the Tiger Parents of all types then it’s another way to differentiate oneself at interview/application.Let’s develop some really meaningful electives.Come on, this is supposed to be the home of innovation!There are many ways to assess students that don’t involve this relentless unforgiving homework grind – the daily chasing of a GPA is just horrible.

Recent article on short film “Tracks”:

http://impact24.sfglobe.com/2015/03/23/j3w/?src=share_fb_new_38028

From UK Mum “It doesn’t have to mean that students aren’t or can’t be challenged. There are many ways to challenge students, help them think deeply, widely, critically and creatively.”

To your point: One of the best classes at Gunn HS is an elective called Auto Tech. The students build a car in this class and learn more hands-on mechanical engineering than most engineering classes. Mr Camicia is a very engaging teacher who stays connected to his students long after they graduate. This was better than any AP class that my student took and he is currently an engineering student in college thanks to this class.

I am a Fremont Union High School District parent and our pediatricians are at PAMF in Sunnyvale. I hope that PAMF pediatricians will try to work closely with ALL our school districts, superintendents, and members of our school boards, to implement as many of these suggestions as possible, and as soon as possible. It is awfully hard for parents to limit our children’s homework time so that they can have more family time, downtime, adequate number of hours of sleep each night, etc. because our children still have to face their teachers if they don’t finish their assigned homework. As parents in the Silicon Valley (many of us have to unlearn notions such as our kids must get a degree from an elite college in order to have success and happiness in their lives), we need to be supportive when our school districts actually limit number of AP classes kids can take in any given year in high school, or disallow kids to play on a school team and a club sports team at the same time. We all need to go through a serious mind shift to see the big picture of our children’s future, as happy, well-adjusted productive adults rather than stressed to the max before they finish high school. We have Stanford University’s Challenge Success right here “in town”, but school districts are still reluctant to work with SC and really implement SC programs at their schools. As this article says, our children are our future, let’s all help them get there!

Jerry,

Well, my point was that there has been that much success recruiting native Mandarin speakers into the program. The definition of a “native speaker” will get stretched to include white kids who had a Mandarin-speaking nanny. This also happens with SI. You also get some that enroll their kids with the understanding that their children will learn English more quickly and won’t fall behind in subjects such as math. Or, at least, that’s how it’s sold.

Now, to be fair, there are some Asian (both East and South) immigrant parents who enroll their kids in Ohlone-main for reasons that have nothing to do with Mandarin. But, to be blunt, a few of them are more Tiger-minded than you might think. Ohlone’s no-homework policy means more time for afterschool tutoring. I can think of one kid who A) wasn’t allowed to come to birthday parties, B) had the whole violin practice-practice-practice thing going C) was told that, yes, there were only 10 colleges she could attend and D) heavily tutored so that she could be two years ahead in math.

I honestly believe these parents were trying to do the best for their child–that they believed they were doing the right thing–and I think they were honestly puzzled when their daughter started giving them pushback and acting out. I think, by their standards, they considered themselves lenient parents. But to the child, who saw all her friends having more choices and fewer restrictions, they seemed strict. (I do think that Ohlone’s general mellowness meant that even tiger-prone parents are a little calmer than they might otherwise be–so a bit more of an individualized/non-competitive approach would be better for all involved.)

I learned, by the way, a lot about the situation via the child grapevine. I always found the parents very nice. I’ve come across that more than once–parents who seem perfectly nice to me, a fellow parent, but a whole ‘nother ball of wax in terms of how their children perceive them and their expectations.

As I said above, there’s a lot of stress in being the child of immigrants. In a very basic way, the children become Americans and the parents don’t and that’s not easy for everyone involved.

I should probably be more clear:

Many of us parents and even some teachers have been trying to push for more balance for years and have faced steep resistance from the school district.

Jerry,

The child I’m discussing was not in MI, but Ohlone-main. Would I generalize from it? Not if it were the only situation I’d come across, but at this point I’ve bumped across similar situations numerous times. I also have close adult friends who experienced this style of parenting.

Does it mean everyone from one part of the world or of a particular ethnic background is like that? No, of course not. But I would also say that any knowledge of the educational systems in, say, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, India, South Korea and Japan would make it clear why that attitude exists and why parents from those countries may not understand why that form of parenting creates problems in the United States.

It is easy to demonize “tiger”-style parenting–and, certainly, the obnoxiousness of Amy Chua lends itself to that. But as I said, I don’t think the parents of the child I mention above were intending to be cruel to their child. They were doing what they thought was right to get the best opportunities for their child. (I do, on the other hand, have friends whose parents truly were abusive.) But since, even now, it’s not the norm here, the kids notice that other kids don’t seem to be as overburdened and seem to be having more fun.

The strongest opponents of tiger-parenting are the kids who rebelled against it. The most unstructured, anti-testing home-schooling parent I know went to school in Hong Kong.

I think there needs to be a better understanding, in general, of how the college system works here (no college, even Harvard, is a guaranteed path to success here) and a reform of the UC/state college systems so that they’re, again, accessible to good, not just great, students. The college application racket also needs to be fixed. Throw out the common app and stop ranking colleges by percentage admitted.

I mean, in a way, a college application system where less than 10 percent of the applicants are admitted to a particular college year after year is a failure and incredibly inefficient. Why condone this waste of time and money?

I don’t know why all the censored posts, but I should probably explain.

One of the environmental factors that can significantly influence student physical and mental health is the indoor air quality. There are now well-researched, well-developed programs for schools to use that allow them to flexibly improve schools’ environmental health, as well as the health and performance of students. We were promised improving indoor air quality in our bond measure, so there is money if there are costs anyway.

The consensus on indoor air quality has really developed in the last 10 years, and our district basically hasn’t caught on.

There is strong consensus that improving indoor air quality will reduce student illnesses and absenteeism (among all students, not just those with allergies), will reduce both the incidence of asthma attacks and the rate of development of asthma in the first place, and improve student performance.

Asthma has been shown to correlate with higher rates of depression. Students experience more stress when they are absent more from illness.

There is good evidence (though no consensus, however, no strong contradictory evidence either) that increased indoor mold/dampness correlates with increased rates of depression, and sleep problems in children (even those without allergies).

Some common places of concern here: persistent, low-level condensation on uninsulated surfaces where there are temperature gradients, particularly on uninsulated concrete slab foundations (especially covered in carpeting, but including other materials), water tracked onto carpets on the feet of hundreds of children, condensation from HVAC systems, ceiling leaks, shampooing or cleaning of flooring not dried within 24 hours, etc.

Installing new AC in buildings that have poor air quality to begin with could amplify existing problems.

Here’s why I bring this up:

1) These air quality issues are known to impact student health and performance. The EPA cites a whole page of research just on how student performance is impacted by indoor air quality. Several studies show a correlation between specific air quality problems and depression, asthma, sleep, and attention problems, all things that can impact student mental wellbeing.

2) Every mainstream educational and environmental health organization, like the EPA, recommends districts adopt an indoor air quality management plan. The EPA and others have developed plans specifically for schools.

3) Our bond measure promises improving indoor air quality, so we have the funds. Most of the things we could do to dramatically improve air quality are simple. Adopting a plan would help us achieve the improvements relatively quickly and systematically. A plan would help us maintain the improvements.

4) The EPA recommends that districts track certain kinds of data to help assess whether a plan is being properly and effectively implemented, such as absenteeism, asthma rates, and certain kinds of asthma inhaler usage. Our district tracks self-reported depressive symptoms already. If we tracked data to gage the effectiveness of implementing indoor air quality management, and tracked depression rates at the same time, we would have an idea of how much of a help our maintaining good indoor air quality into the future would be in solving this problem for our students. We should be doing this anyway for other reasons.

We should be improving our educational program for a whole host of reasons anyway. But I would hate to see us do all the right things and still have depressed students. This is one burden that is a no-brainer for us to remove from our kids.

We should adopt an indoor air quality management plan, such as the EPA’s Tools for schools. We should ask for help to do the recommended walkthroughs with help from the EPA and the parent community. We should plan on doing any work over this summer. We should track the data that will help us understand how well we have done. We should be doing it anyway, we were promised it in the bond work, and it could well be the difference in why our students are having a relatively hard time compared to similarly stressed out districts.

This is an area our medical professionals could really help us with. The trouble is that they aren’t necessarily there in the facilities. I would invite any of our medical professionals in the HEARD alliance whose kids attend PAUSD schools to attend parent visitation days and go spend time in some of the rooms: the old music rooms at Terman, the fiction end of the library at JLS, anywhere with older carpeting at Jordan, the guidance offices at Gunn. Then please consider adding this issue, soon, because doing something significant is very attainable, already promised anyway, and if it’s going to happen this summer, the admin needs to be convinced now.

Downtowner,

I see this meme about the uber-techie-driver PAUSD parent, but the reality, especially on this side of town by Gunn, of my experience, is quite different.

I have never in my life been around so many smart, caring people who are doing their level best to get it right. More people who would share Race to Nowhere with you than push their kids into the rat race. I see such a caring parent community, and such great kids.

And I frankly think it’s a tragedy that people are starting to think that dreaming about doing great things is somehow a step from mental illness.

We have real problems with our schools, and our school programs, that we CAN fix. I don’t think focusing on creating blame, and conjuring stereotypes, is really accurate or helpful.

Downtowner,

There are always crazy parents, but are they really the majority or are they a loud minority? For every story about crazy, demanding parents, we get two stories about an unresponsive school system. There are times I feel that the schools use our crazy-parent minority as an excuse for *not* changing things.

Gunn, not Paly, instituted the academic zero period–so I don’t know how you can put that on demanding Paly parents. Paly also instituted the block period schedule to lighten up, in part, on the homework schedule–and I don’t recall seeing a huge Paly parent protest over it.

At the same time, we’ve had an OCR investigation where the district came out looking badly, the infamous math letter by from the head of Paly’s math department over some kids never being capable of understanding algebra II and not one, but two, terrible superintendents in ten years.

There are problem parents, but I don’t think they’re pushing the district the way you claim. The district bureaucracy has its cover-your-ass-at-all-costs mentality that’s come into play here. If nothing else, teaching without assigning excess homework takes a certain efficiency and conscientiousness. So does making sure you’re testing on what you’ve actually taught.

Palo Alto has some excellent teachers–some of the best I’ve ever seen anywhere, but I think weak teaching isn’t dealt with well.

I’m with you on the cell phones. It’s unfair to everyone to have cell phones on in class.

OPar,

I would love your feedback above about what we can do, now, about improving the environmental health of our facilities specifically in ways that are known to impact mental health, and how we can track our effectiveness.

@ OPar –

I’m sure you’re right about Zero classes. I also think school should start later & kids should be limited to the number of AP classes they can take each year as well as the number of athletic programs they can participate in. I also believe in curfews & bedtimes & limited TV & video game time. Strange.

I’m an M-A parent and compare what my nephews & nieces have had & are experiencing @ Paly. This thread has a lot of criticisms directed to Paly, not Gunn and the girl whose OpEd piece started this thread is a Paly student. Based what I see, read, and hear, from my family & my friend who has taught at both, the parental behaviors of Paly parents are far worse. The kids are different too, according to the teacher who has taught the same subject at both schools.

One poster above complained that middle school music requires (to her, excessive) 100 minutes of practice per week! Horrors!! That’s 20 minutes 5 days per week, 2 days off per week, on district-provided instruments with district-provided instruction and no cost to parents. Then don’t have your kid take music. Many music students play on leased or owned instruments and get lessons their parents pay for, and practice 1 hour or more per day. I think it’s terrific that music is offered, as it’s a great way to see if the child has adequate interest or talent to warrant pursuing lessons privately later on. If 100 minutes practice a week is too much, don’t try to be a musician as it won’t work out well.

OPar, what is as sad as children who are sufficiently depressed to cause themselves grievous or fatal harm are the kids like Miss OpEd who say they’ve no joy now because they’ve been pressured to be better since middle school. How could parents not notice a middle school child’s anxiety about class placements and not address those concerns appropriately to comfort the child, nourish self-worth, and arrange tutoring, if appropriate, to improve the child’s subject understanding & thus raise confidence?

For weeks, on many threads, there are harsh criticisms thrown at parents who pay for tutoring, as if that is a bad thing or an extravagance. No, a 6th grader can easily get inexpensive, valuable help from a high school student who’d like some extra cash, unless all the kids are so rich they don’t want to earn money. I paid an M-A boy to tutor my 7th grader – the soph was happy to do it & my kid got the hang of what she needed to learn. It took 2x per week for about 4 weeks. If parents want to get vocab tutors before SATs, why does that indicate schools don’t do the job? Maybe parents can read 1or 2 paragraphs from a professional or academic publication to the dinner table or do 5 minutes of vocab practice at night?

Gunn kids do have what may be a geographic advantage over Paly kids. Besides no RR tracks, Gunn kids can’t stroll Town & Country Village for lunch, shopping, and distraction from the school day. At any given time, you’ll see a lot of Paly kids at T & C. Cafe lunches are more fun than the cafeteria or brown bags. Earlier this week I was at La Belle & so were 2 h.s. girls, getting lunch time manis. At checkout, one girl paid for both with a black American Express. It did reinforce my ideas about how extremes of affluence among high-schoolers affects their social environment and might increase dissatisfaction among some have-less kids who may not be confident or mature enough to put this into perspective.

If there are ways to ease pressure on kids by changing the curriculum, great. The teachers would actually like that too. Most of them teach 135 kids per week, develop lesson plans, assignments, quizzes, tests, try to help those who want or ask for extra time, read & correct assignments & tests, write college appl. recommendations, return emails from parents, attend department meetings, and then actually tend to their own families & lives.

Parent,

I just don’t see the physical environment as being the key factor in student stress and depression, so it’s not where my focus is. I haven’t seen any students complain about feeling sick or sad in the buildings. I have seen a lot of students raise concerns about the competitiveness, the homework load, the stress levels and lack of sleep. So there’s where my focus is. Not saying your focus needs to be there, but it’s where mine is.

Downtowner,

There are rich kids at Paly who do rich kids things, but I don’t think that creates the stress issues at Paly, though I know some kids have had problems with the social cliques there.

But the tutoring we’re talking about here is on a very different level than pulling in a high-school student for a few weeks. We’re talking about $80 an hour tutors to put your kid a year ahead in a subject so he or she can then ace the class. Get enough kids doing that then the entire curve of the class gets skewed and kids who are learning a subject in “real time” end up at a serious disadvantage, while the teachers get inaccurate feedback on the efficacy of their teaching.

As for parents not noticing anxiety in middle-schoolers. Well, parents don’t notice lots of things. Also, kids don’t always talk to their parents. One of the most destructive things about large amounts of homework is the way it destroys family time. If there’s no time to just hang out with your kid, don’t be surprised when you don’t know what they’re doing or how they’re feeling.

Honestly, I know few parents who are really good at talking to and listening to their kids. It takes time and years of effort to maintain the kind of trust required to keep a teen talking to you. It means having the time to hang for a half-hour at a cafe or take an evening walk and just talk. An exhausted kid worried about two hours of homework and practice doesn’t have time for that. A parent stressed about college (and paying for it) can have a hard time just listening and getting to know 6-foot adolescent who was a toddler in what seemed like only last year.

I find the homework overload stifling and counterproductive to true learning and development.

“It’s not, by the way, going to manifest as someone being sad when they walk into a building, and better when they walk out. It doesn’t work that way – it overlays other problems. “

Actually – this deserves a follow up comment.

Very vulnerable students can be colonized by fungal organisms — they may be affected even after they leave the problem environment.

We have improving IAQ in our bond measure, we should be the Whole Foods of school facilities. The issue overlays others — a child who has too much homework will be even less able to cope with it than otherwise, for example. A child who is performing poorly in school may have more attention issues, more sleep issues, lower test scores. Who is going to conclude it’s the school environment? No one. Everyone is going to assume it’s related to their own aptitude, stress, etc.

Dealing with this issue simply takes one potential burden away from the kids. Anyway, I am not trying to change your focus, only give more info. I would appreciate your support, if you are willing
http://tinyurl.com/iaq-pausd

Great suggestions. That’s the first time I’ve seen anyone come up with constructive and adaptable ideas. No blaming, no finger pointing – just straight forward ideas. Thank you.

On privacy – let me put it another way: you can’t force or require anyone to state whether they use a tutor or not. You can ask, but you can’t require a response.

OPar,

I hope you will broach the subject with her because it may also depend who brings it up. Our district is so political.

We don’t even have to wait until we have a separate high school. We could implement something like the SJUSD Homestudies program, using independent study rules. Kids could reduce their overall school/homework time by doing classes like math as self-paced — takes less time then — and integrating subjects like history and English into projects so they also take less time and kids spend more time doing projects. Something like this could be done as a school within school next year. (When I brought it up, the reservations was mainly that too many people would want to do it!)

Parent,

I’m not buddies with Camille Townsend. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek because Townsend’s pushing against elimination of zero period academic classes because it gets in the way of “choice”. She was also a big supporter of Mandarin Immersion–even as it denied the many, many families on the Ohlone waitlist a shot at getting into the program.

The *last* thing Townsend and her cronies want is a charter high school, but if the parental wherewithal is there, there’s not much she and the board can do about it.

Thing is, we have the space–the district owns a chunk of Cubberly, as well as Pinewood, but Cubberly’s the natural site since it was built as a high school. We certainly have the students–both high schools are stuffed–and we have the interest. Plenty of people are sick of having stressed-out, sleep-deprived kids who are drowning in homework and worried that they’ll never succeed. It’s time for a real alternative.

Let’s have a high school that focuses on the whole child–where teachers work in tandem so kids aren’t drowning in homework. Any honors course should have some depth and not be about test-test-test. Classes should have an element of independent study and self-directed learning instead of making it about kids competing against one another for three As. There should be space and credit given for a kid who wants to follow a passion and, say, make a film or build a robot.

Let’s quit burning out our kids. Instead, let’s not only make them ready for college, but enthusiastic about going to college and the opportunity to learn new things.

Another poster has said a couple of groups of parents are exploring charter options–I hope I hear more about it soon. We have alternatives for every other school level, it’s time to bring a true alternative to our high schools. As I said above, I think it would benefit everyone though the board and administration will squawk and balk. But at this point, who cares?

There are certainly doctors who were not pushed. My sister is a cardiologist who was never once pushed. Often times she missed first period because she wanted more sleep, which my parents didn’t have a problem with. She went to horrible schools (one located in a slum serving those who lived in mobile homes). She went on to community college and UC Davis and then to Medical school.

I’m sure there are others like her. No, you don’t need to push your kids. Certainly not to the toxic levels we see today.

It seems a lot of the Pushers/Preppers/over competing/winning is everything types in the valley are basing their choices not on facts and reality but on their own ideas which probably stem from their own mental issues. It’s sad and frustrating that they are forcing this on our own kids and infecting the rest of the community with their illness.

No change will happen unless the voices of the doctors, professionals, and the school system calling for change are listened to and policies are changed and enforced. Further it won’t change until mentally well parents collectively take a moral stand against those parents and teachers who ratchet up the competition. The act of students taking classes over the summer to prepare for fall classes and teachers testing students on material they have not taught should be viewed as an aggressive act that damages our children and communities. It’s unethical to continually seek a special advantage that can only be obtained by a few. What values are we teaching our kids?

When will we stop upping up the ente to play the game? Kids are dying but it’s not enough.

Parent,

Yes, PAUSD owns the Pinewood upper campus and leases it to Pinewood. At one point, due to budget cuts and falling enrollment, Palo Alto closed a third of its elementary schools as well as Cubberly and Terman. Some of them were razed, but the district held on to most of Cubberly, Green Gables, Pinewood and Garland. In addition, the city took over Ventura.

The district has the property, in other words, to open another elementary, but, instead, got addicted to the revenues from renting them out and, instead, has chosen to build up our current elementaries with no regard (as usual) for the evidence that large elementaries adversely affect student performance. Terman was reopened well before the current board.

The district even raised money through one of its bond issues to bring Green Gables up to current code, but, instead, started building two-stories all over the district–even though we voters thought we were voting for the opening of the much-needed 13th elementary. (Kids who live between Embarcadero and Oregon have no elementary in walking distance that doesn’t include crossing a major street. The kids living in the Ventura area have to cross El Camino.)

Cubberly’s partly owned by the city and the district. It would have to be brought up to current code, though I don’t see why if the charter was willing not to be too pushy that that couldn’t be done in stages. Pinewood’s in good condition and would also work for a small high school.

But the PAUSD likes being in the landlord business.

@Wendy,
Can I ask you an honest question? Are you talking about specific people that you know when you allude to all these pushing parents, were you once an integrated part of our local school communities, or are you making an assumption and passing along a negative meme about PAUSD parents? I’m not saying this to put you on the spot, I just want people to examine whether they are speaking from really knowing, or from what is stereotyping based on maybe even a few cases, and painting everyone with the same negative brush.

Because I belong to two middle school communities, and I just don’t see it. In fact, I have for many years, in terms of the family communities, felt like this place is a sanctuary — Nerd Utopia.

Really good kids I know who went to Los Altos High were destroyed by the social environment they felt was “snobby” and oppressive. We don’t even that element of snobbishness here, either, at least on the Gunn side of town.

In the meantime, some of the real root causes are going unaddressed. I was speaking with someone in an organization dedicated to ending suicide, and one of those fundamental reasons — TRUST problems within the school district — came up in the conversation. We don’t hear anything about it in the public conversations, because the families of the most vulnerable students are suffering in silence, hoping not to rock the boat so they won’t be retaliated against. I had conversations with two families this week whose experiences have not improved despite all this soul searching — they have been and continue to be subjected to disturbingly similar, overtly destructive practices that (if you know about these things) lawyers with insurance backgrounds engage in to wear people down. Those practices didn’t end when Skelly left. It is just destroying families of our most vulnerable children, and frankly, a big lawsuit waiting to happen one day.

We have real problems here, and these kinds of unhelpful memes, or stereotyping based on a few unhelpful cases, is only making it harder to address the real problems.

One of the experts the district brought in the last time wrote a book in which he spoke about how the myth of the troubled teen came about because of an overemphasis on studying troubled teens, who turned out to be a minority of teens, and ignoring the majority who actually don’t have such problems. It turns out that when teens understand that drinking and other self-destructive behaviors aren’t a given in adolescence, they are more likely to be able to resist pressure to engage in those behaviors.

There is something called “stereotype threat” — in which stereotyping creates self-fulfilling prophesies.

Let’s talk about the MAJORITY of parents in this town, who are loving, care about education, supportive, intelligent, and willing to sacrifice so much for their kids. Caring about the kids having a good education should NOT be one step from pushing a kid over the edge, and it never has been. There is more going on here, and blaming parents using an ugly, and in my long experience here, untrue, stereotype, does a disservice to a hurting community and at the very least cannot help. I would argue that we have a uniquely amazing parent population that could produce such a community of innovation in support of our kids, that could lead the way into the next century of education, and give our amazing, engaged kids a happy, challenging, unique school experience. But it won’t happen unless we deal with certain destructive elements and practices embodied by a few D-players in the district office. (Why can’t parents who have had to deal with them give THEM grades for once?!)

I think we have a lot to do here. I think it will be difficult to make the changes we need, and create the kind of positive, dynamic relationship families would benefit from with the district office (that is supposed to be serving their educational needs), until we make a few key changes in personnel in the district office, and I don’t mean McGee. McGee, unfortunately, shows no signs of getting rid of those people, and out here in the community, I’m seeing signs of people losing faith in him. If he doesn’t move on some of those personnel issues, look for more trouble as McGee’s honeymoon comes to an end. Once people who needed his help the most lose all hope, it’s all over. I think most people want to see him succeed for the sake of our kids. But if that isn’t going to happen — and frankly, it probably can’t because of certain people directly under him — we’ll end up doing things the difficult way again.

Parent- re-read my post.

I said Valley. I’m not using stereotypes. I’m calling on what I experience every day. Maybe my experience is worse because we are more influenced by Cupertino. From what I have read here from Palo Alto parents it’s not much different than mine. When the majority stays silent on poor behaviors we end up in these situations. We haven’t only stayed silent, we have joined the insanity to keep up.

At any rate I never called out Palo Alto I said VALLEY.

“In related news, how’s that new $40M Foothill campus coming along in Sunnyvale?”

Yes, thank you Melissa and Camille for that monumental missed opportunity. We should name it Skelly’s Folly.

Wendy,

Since this thread is about what is happening in Palo Alto, and as a Palo Alto parent with ties to several school communities and very close knowledge of personnel in the district office, I can tell you with certainty that you are stereotyping and it isn’t helpful in this situation.

I am really tired of people coming on these lists with their generalizations and stereotypes from absolutely zero personal connection to the families here and no understanding of the problematic personnel in the district office that we still have since Skelly’s departure, and zero understanding of some of the very hard work parents have engaged in to absolute brick walls to try to get balance and get the district to serve kids’ creativity and curiosity instead of what we have.

If those stereotypes are your experience in Cupertino, then my condolences, you have affirmed reports from way back when that made me not move to Cupertino.

Wendy,

I don’t have time to write now, but did not want to leave you with the impression that anyone was being hostile towards you, as Jerry has interpreted. I disagree with you, and I’m very tired of people making assumptions about parents as a result of what is happening, but I’m glad for your willingness to join in on this issue – so if you felt anything negative, please chalk it up to the nature of online communication. Jerry has an unfortunate habit of ascribing negative motivations to anyone who disagrees on an issue, sorry about that. I have lived in different parts of the country and this is about as nice a parent community as I have ever witnessed, it’s one of the reasons I think the district is worth rescuing from some truly bad leadership.

And yes, a few people can be at the root of the problem if those people are responsible for making and implementing policies, and they think first about their own personal interests, not the kids.

This whole idea that the kids who succeed are because they are being pushed is really flawed. My kid is a high level violin player (as there are MANY in this community, his choice), and we do have to remind about practice (sometimes), and I’m not saying I haven’t ever gotten exasperated when the practice got put off into conflicting with family plans, but the reality is that if you push a kid like that, they push back. Yo Yo Ma apparently had parents who pushed him so hard, he quit playing the cello altogether. Pushing doesn’t make kids better. PUshing makes teens push back and rebel, usually. Providing opportunities where they can express themselves — and be challenged, and feel competent — that makes them WANT to get better and want to challenge themselves more.

Speaking of which, getting to go improvise with some advanced roots music players once a week was a wonderful way to let off steam and be creative, and had to be stopped during school because there is no time — because of homework. The homework is often busy work, and often not as rewarding as what is being given up, and these things given up are looked at dismissively by the schools as if they are somehow unimportant, or worse, the cause of the stress.

During one of the most stressful circumstances of my life, I sought help from a therapist, and her answer? She told me despite all the demands, I had to carve out a way to spend regular time to do something creative. It worked like a charm. (Worth every penny I paid her!) People keep overlooking that was one of the pieces of advice by the doctors, give kids an opportunity to pursue creative pursuits.

I think it’s really getting disturbing how people are conflating the supporting of kids to do well, value their education, and make the best use of their talents, with being “tiger parents” and somehow being responsible for the tragedies. The Davidson Institute publishes research showing how important support is for gifted children, and how harmful is the MYTH of pushy parents.

There really is too much stereotyping going on in these discussions, and it becomes a meme amplified by social media. I have not wanted to leave this school system precisely because I have felt like the teachers are unusually good, and the parent community is so amazingly, refreshingly, different and intelligent, friendly, caring, and willing to engage in making the lives of our kids better. Could I tell a few stories of exceptions? What difference does it make? If anything, I have seen LESS of this stereotypical pushing than anywhere else. I have seen ZERO pushing of girls to be thin, wear makeup at an early age by their mothers, etc.

It also doesn’t help us to infantilize our kids. This is worth reading:
http://drrobertepstein.com/pdf/Epstein-THE_MYTH_OF_THE_TEEN_BRAIN-Scientific_American_Mind-4-07.pdf?lbisphpreq=1

We do need to ensure our schools restore a healthy respect for work-life balance, including respecting home time. Don’t just tell us the kids need sleep, plan the school program assuming a hard boundary between school and home so that home time is sacrosanct. Period.

We need to bring the educational program into the 21st century, so that it supports project-based learning and a range of talents and intelligences, and treats all of our kids as valuable people with potential.

We do need to bring in better mechanisms to balance the power in the district with some local control mechanisms, even as good as we have in the PTA, so things don’t ever run this amok again. (Good luck with that!)

But continuing the blaming and stereotyping, especially by people who don’t even have firsthand experience here — not helpful.

(Wendy, that was not directed at you personally, it’s been a problem on these threads for awhile. You have a real point about the unhealthy educational environment caused by a narrow sorting-weeding mentality and a conflation of rigor with masses of homework and sucking all the joy out of learning. That’s a problem nationally now, not just here. Many of us have been trying to address that for years now — please help us instead of encouraging an unhelpful meme about parents. Thanks. You may want search for the thread from December on what is the legal basis for homework…)

@Jenny,

That perspective is just a little difficult to reconcile with my kid who has been begging for years to be homeschooled in order to be challenged and have a better school experience, and all the many parents trying to get their kids into project-based learning programs. You do know that they doubled the size of the 6th grade Connections program this year and still they had to turn away people trying to get in?

OPar,
“how about flipping matters and reward good teaching”

You should read Daniel Pink’s book, Drive: The Surprising Truth about What Motivates us. It doesn’t just apply to teaching but also to kids, and is very relevant to this discussion. It discusses the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivators, and how extrinsic motivators tend to work really well for very focused, rote tasks but not for creative problem solving. It also talks about how turning what is a social contract essentially into a monetary one can backfire.

Teachers may be a more effective group if there is a greater sense of community excellence. Rather than even looking at teaching as a sorting system…

I love an example in that book (I think it’s that one), a study that looked at what level of monetary fine would encourage parents to pick up their children on time from a daycare. What they found was surprising: it turned out that imposing a fine made more people late! Because it turned what had been a social contract, picking children up on time out of respect for the teachers and school, into an economic one, in which parents felt implicitly that they were paying for the time so they felt they were paying to be able to pick their child up later.

Our public ideas of rewards and motivators really needs to change, because we undermine the intrinsically motivated, and the things that help foster intrinsic motivations. Anyway, I’m not telling you to change your mind about anything, it sounds like it’s in your alley already.

I just think we should foster collaborative excellence and innovation in teaching (including the parent community). It doesn’t have to cost more money, either.

“Please tell us what your non-negotiable demands are for you to consider putting the brakes on the No on A campaign.”

I don’t think there really is a No on A campaign, in fact I don’t think I would get involved because I know people working on the yes campaign and am not sure (yet) that it matters that much which way it goes. However I am definitely leaning NO now.

I think a NO result would have the following potential benefits:
-Send the district a message about parent disaffection it almost certainly won’t get any other way.
-Give us a chance to take stock during a time of turmoil in which enrollment numbers probably will change in unpredictable ways, depending on how the district responds (or not) to this crisis.
-Give us a chance to come back with an ask a little closer to the existing amount rather than increasing it during a time of increased tax receipts anyway.

What would make me vote YES without a doubt? It’s a lovely list of wants that isn’t going to happen:

-The district making an all out effort to restore good faith and trust with families, including:

a) establishing a better mechanism for meaningful communication and resolving problems

b) rooting out personnel engaged in very untrustworthy behavior in the district office (there are a core of 2 or 3 that I just simply don’t want to have a hand in paying anymore, period, and those names could be easily found if McGee simply started talking honestly with as many parents as possible, especially those with special needs and hurting kids), and replacing them with people who can really help McGee innovate – the guy is so full of energy and great ideas and he has no idea what’s really going on here

c) establishing a new ethos of working with families in a more constructive and collaborative way (stems directly from a & b)

d) change our legal team to some organization much more about education and positive relationships with families, maybe even change how we ensure ourselves so we never again put our employees in the position of essentially defending the insurance interests versus advocating for kids as they should be.

-The board making it possible for families to impact district policies and enforce existing policies, short of having to make a statement at the ballot, and more enforceable than just talking to the hand at board meetings.

-The district making some effort to allow for individualized programs that better meet the needs of project-based-oriented kids. I think a lot more people are contemplating moving out of the system than the district realizes, and none of them are going to want to pay yet more to support a system they can’t use. Even restoring the independent study options at Gunn (which were inexplicably removed this year) or allowing homeschoolers to take some classes at the high school rather than making them pay and just shutting them out, those would all be helpful.

I guess I don’t really have any hard demands, because I don’t really think the district will reform enough to make a difference, because they aren’t making the essential steps to restore trust. I think restoring trust is the big issue for me, because I think a host of good things like better communications and rooting out corrupt practices/employees who engage in them would flow from that. Hiring more people has never really solved problems when the people here already show no inclination to solve the problems already. I say that having had high hopes before too many times.

How ironic that today I heard on the radio an advertisement for some enrichment program for teens that claimed an affiliation and name associated with Stanford, with a pressuring tone, and stating “available over Spring Break.” Obviously aimed at Tiger Moms and already pressured and/or hardworking students and/or prepped students, it was clear such students should not deserve ANY holiday break.

To revive the heart of our schools;

To create hope for out teens;

Sign our “Open Letter to the School Board and the Superintendent”—

At: http://www.savethe2008.com

Marc Vincenti
Co-founder, with Gunn soph Martha Cabot
“Save the 2,008”

outsider,
I wish I could “like” that post 10,000X.

I feel very sad for those parents who waste their time trying to “prevent suicide” but reading books, reports, ad nauseum.

It’s very simple. If you want to protect your kids from depression, suicide, drug abuse, anorexia, and anxiety, just get them out of Gunn. Put them in a less emotionally destructive school. Only by removing the source of the abuse, can you cure the abuse.

It really is that simple.

Yes, it’s beyond the financial means of most parents since you must put them in a private school at 20K per year per kid. The state and school system has carefully arranged it so that Charter Schools are almost impossible to set up. Also many private schools simply don’t accept any more students since they are already flooded with applications. Many, many people desperate to get out of Gunn and away from the epidemic killing kids.

So I understand why some families might hesitate because of financial hurdles. Maybe they hope to stay in this toxic school system and “fix it”. Not likely. These institutions cannot be fixed; more likely there will be another suicide and then the school is sued into non-existence. Or the state will decide to convene a grand jury to look into the situation, and Palo Alto will become the laughingstock of the nation.

Basically the odds of a happy ending are slim. Better to take that equity out of your house and use it to finance your kids at private school. Sure, you’ll spend your retirement funds, but at least your kids will be alive.

Parents can thank the administrators and teachers of PAUSD for putting you into this dilemma.

I see there are two of us posting with “former PALY parent” on this thread. I have used this handle in past.
I notice some discussion of SATs just now – also APs come to mind – but SAT scores can be raised significantly through extensive paid tutoring. Not all students desire (or their parents desire) or have the money or time for such prepping. Therefore, I have a big issue with those who brag here about their SAT scores. If you’ve been prepped since 8th grade, for sure your scores are gonnna rise. PSAT scores lead to the coveted National Merit Finalist status, but I actually think some colleges are yawning at that now, knowing it can be doctored. I really think there should be holistic admissions processes at colleges – I’m sure they vary – but it is disheartening that some parents prep their kids to the nth degree to get ANY leg up, and SAT scores are a great example of that.

@Parent: I agree with you 100%!!

We, parents, need to unite and help our students! I’ve been following all these threads in the last month. Here are some interesting questions:

1. Our high school college counseling system, especially at Gunn, is NOT working!! There is a push back from the current system to implement improvement!

2. The day to day students stress includes multiple tests/assignments due at Gunn which is addressed by utilizing a homework management system- Schoology. Some teachers backed by teachers’ union are refusing to utilize Schoology which they themselves evaluated and tested years ago.

3. Few parents voiced concerns over the large number of students prescribed with ADHD/Anti-depressant for anxiety. Is there a link between the medicine and teens suicides?

4. There is general consensus that our district has high administrative overhead! Multiple assistant principals? district level coordinators for writing, science, etc.?

5. Limit AP classes !

6. Move school start time later and eliminate zeroth period.

7. Need parent education to help parents and students to communicate and thrive in our community.

Lets work together and better our schools by making changes NOT adding more overhead!

If the approximate time to do homework for each class is known, can students/administrators/parents actively limit the expected hours of school and homework to 40 hours? It seems that most people around here are exempt employees, and work longer hours, but surely limiting the working week of a 14- or 15-year-old to 40 hours is possible. Just because a student is capable of doing 3-4 hours of homework a night doesn’t mean they should. Add an hour or two of a sport every day, and very quickly you have a 60 hour work week (7 hours in school, 3 hours homework, 2 hours for sports). Even as I type that, it seems so unrealistic: Little League for a 9 year old already consumes 10 hours. Play an instrument and only have the most token practice of 15 minutes a day, and there’s another 1.5 hours a week. This is not a problem for “them” to solve. We all have take a stand, be vocal and insist on limits: in the family, in the schools, with coaches.