"An alleged right wing extremist..."

Really? Who has alleged that?

Giffords is a blue dog democrat, who held tight with her party on the health care deal, but she is very strong on controlling the border. She supports gun rights, and owns guns. Palin 'targeted' her for her vote on the health care deal, but Palin, herself, is the target of extreme hatred from the leftwing extremists. Some went so far as to accuse her of lying about her giving birth to her own baby...really disgusting stuff. Even more accused her of lying about being able to see Russia from Alaska.

A leftwing extremist, Oswald, killed JFK. Don't be surprised if this guy. Loughner, is also a left extremist. Early reports are that he was very upset about god being invoked on US currency ("In God We Trust"), as well the fact that US currency is not backed by gold. He is probably mentally disturbed, and out of touch with daily reality.

American: All I see on this link is "Let's take back the 20" -- I don't see Palin calling it a "gun them down poster."

Whether right or left, this person is very mentally ill, and will use some hyped excuse to commit mayhem.

Before trying to pin this on others (such as Palin) at least wait until we know more.

Expect to see more of the palin apologists coming out of the woodwork trying to select attention away from palin and bachmann. The suggest "2 amendment solutions"and use targets for their"enemies".wait until beck, limbaugh and the rest of the haters in this country start unleashing more vitriol.

No rings! The symbol is not a target!

"I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."
- Sharon Angle, June 2010

There are several similar "Second Amendment remedies" quotes from the Tea Partyers over the last several months.

The only thing surprising about this post is the timing. I would have expected it moments after the shooting, not hours.

It's time for the Right to disavow the violent rhetoric of the fringe right and the teabaggers. And that includes the violent rants from Beck, etc...

Note the ad in June that Gabby's opponent ran:
Web Link

Are ya kidding me?!? Why wasn't the right ALL OVER this guy, all over half term sarah's crosshairs?!!? Sharon's 2nd amendment remedies?!?!?

That is not acceptable in any civilized society and needs to be condemned, not defended.

Do not try and hide behind this guy's insanity as the sole cause. It's a nut like this that listen to a Glen Beck and thinks "something oughta be done, cuz Glen says so...."

Good luck in your recovery, Gabrielle, and our sympathies to the families that lost a loved one.

A nine year old girl.

from the Sheriff of Pima County, today

Sheriff Dupnik also made a passionate plea for cooler heads to prevail in political debate, decrying the vitriolic tone of some talk radio hosts.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the Capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

Walters comment is Not surprising either . [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.] we definitely need to dial down the vitriol coming from the right wing.beck, palin and limbaugh are out for the money and take no responsiblity for their inflammatory comments.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Thomas Jefferson

William Ayers, a close and strong confederate of our current President, was very good at making and using IEDs against our own Americans.

Sarah Palin is...(check whatever hateful box you want).

However, all such trash talk misses the point: This guy Loughner, was directing his own boat.

Gene's comments are not surprising either. Bring in obama and resurrect the bill ayers issue.as if what ayers might have done somehow justifies the events in arizona today. Plus more excuses for palin and her vitriol. Funny how palin can say whatever she wants but those that speak out against her are haters according to gene and walter

I am confused. The Palin haters seem to be looking for an excuse to blame her for today's attack on the Arizona congresswoman. There is absolutely no evidence to blame this attack on Palin. It is just more of the vile hatred towards Palin. I am, frankly, more concerned that the hatred against Palin may be a serious security issue for her and her family. It is really disgusting stuff.

Time for the Palin haters to quiet down. The shame is not on her, but on her haters.

I'm disappointed.

The predictable left-wing "take" on this was hours late, and although many have done their best to blame the right wing, there is one critical part of the liberal religion that is missing.

Where is the sexism? After all, she was a woman, and the shooter a man.

I'm disappointed, very disappointed. I thought Palo Altans were more sophisticated than to miss such an obvious point.

If there's no connection, as many of you here assert, between Palin's "info-diagram" and the shootings today, why has Palin removed it from her site?

Clearly by so vigorously defending palin, gene must realize her potential culpability in this matter. Note how he is now trying to make palin the victim. It is obvious that the right wing blowhards will tale no responsibility for their vitriol.

Web Link

Sarah and the crosshairs.

Coupled with Angle's 2nd amendment solutions.

Add in a little "shoot Gabrielle with an M16" from her opponent:

Web Link

Where was the Right on these lunatics?

Gene & outside observer: don't defend it, don't blame something from 4 decades ago, don't obfuscate - stand up and denounce it.

How can you not?

Do it quickly before the editor shuts this down.

Newsbusters, a website pointing out liberal bias in media, pointed out that this congresswoman was also "targeted" by Daily Kos back in 2008.

Look, this is a sad story. This is also America. We the People can should be able to share our opinions whatever they are, be they Sean Penn, Sarah Palin, Keith Olbermann, Glenn Beck, or plain old Joe Schmo's like ourselves. We should never blame the act of a madman on someone else's expression of an opinion. None of the above has ever even remotely called for violence. When people are speaking out, they frequently use metaphors! It happens. Now, lets all just calm down and look at this tragedy for what it is - a tragedy, not an excuse for more political vitriol. I've never even heard of this Congresswoman before today, but I can tell you that she's in my prayers tonight along with whoever else was shot, along with a prayer for us all to take a down a notch, and remember we're all on the same team.

Anonymous,

You are right, They will censor our posts.

That alone is irrefutable proof of their validity.

As for denouncing anything, or taking any opinion, I'll wait until all the facts are in.

Web Link

DailyKos "bullseyed" this poor woman in 2008...

3 days ago a former staffer of hers said he left and she was "dead to him" now.

The shooter was a long-haired, pot-smoking atheist ( clearly a right winger!). 2 former classmates describe him as liberal. He believed in the Mayan 2012 "end of world" prophecy. He believed his (and our) minds were under the control of some weird govt program. He thought this Congresswoman was 'stupid'.

How anyone can even begin to try to pin this massacre on a political party or anyone other than the total insanity of the guy who pulled the trigger is..well..insane.

All that said, to blame either leftists or rightists for the shootings from a mentally ill person shows complete ignorance bordering on mindless hate.

Better to inform yourselves on mental illness and how tied our hands are in addressing these illnesses 'against the will' of the ill in the name of protecting their civil liberties. His local community college had kicked him out of the school until he got a mental workup ( I guess one could take the point of view that this action pushed him over the edge, and start blaming community colleges if one were of that kind of mindset..but that is also insanity).

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

"We need to do some soul searching. It's the vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out from people in the radio business and some people in the TV business. When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government, the anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this county is getting to be outrageous. Unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."
- Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik


I agree with the sheriff. The shooter was likely not employed by the Tea Party (though there is evidence of some kind of conspiracy), but deranged people do not need formal orders.

Here here, ZenMan. A voice of reason.

"DailyKos "bullseyed" this poor woman in 2008..."

Nice try. According to your mock-up, they targeted the DISTRICT, not the person.

How about a link to the real page (I can't find it) or the Google cached version? No mockups, post real links or cached links.

Your mock-up doesn't match the site. Your mockup put the bullseye graphic on it, didn't it? Show the real, whole page.

If they put a bullseye graphic on HER, I condemn it.

DO YOU CONDEMN sarah's bullseye on Gabbi? Web Link (and yes, there's a difference between a person posting something on D-Kos/Freepers/Newsbusters and a VP candidate!!)

Do you condemn her opponent that held an M16 target practice? Web Link

Do you condemn Angle's call for "2nd amendment remedies"?

Of course this guy (not a longhair, look again) is at the least, unstable. It's those unstable folks who should not be lead by violent rhetoric, most of which emanates from the fringe right and teabaggers.

You must condemn it. Morally, how can you not?

Obfuscate, change the subject, blame others all you want, but if you don't condemn violent rhetoric from the fringe right, you've lost all credibility.

Fox News is reporting that the shooter has ties to a white supremacist anti-semitic anti-immigration group called "American Renaissance".

sarah palin tweet, march 2010:
Web Link
"Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!"

I'll make it easy for you, just copy and paste:

"I CONDEMN this violence, and I condemn all violent rhetoric that may lead any individuals, disturbed or otherwise, to justify violence."

C'mon, it's easy. Just paste it. You know it's the right thing.

It's American.

Anonymous: No, read the page-grab again. You will note a NAME there. Again, not blaming dailykos, that would be insane, but simply pointing out that no one person/party holds this prize, there is plenty of metaphorical "sightings" uses in our history.

Fortunately, thanks to the internet, I believe most Americans are getting too smart to fall for the spin the left is trying to put on this. Most of us know that mental illness can erode to this point and leave behind dead and wounded people, completely unrelated to "politics" or what anyone else says. Most of us understand metaphors and nuance, and know such utterances are not meant to be taken literally ( aka when Barack Obama said to bring a gun to the fight with those who oppose him). Most of us understand that situations such as this are the results of a severe mental illness...and it doesn't matter who said what, it only matters what the voices in his head told him.

I recommend you and all the left lay of trying to politicize this..it will backfire. It already is, frankly. Most Americans are sick to death of "not letting a good crisis go to waste" politicization, and have wisened up to the game.

Now, time to pray for all the dead, wounded, and loved ones in this tragedy..and hope that we can get a clearer way of dealing with insane, such as this young man, in the future. Every time someone like him comes to the forefront and kills people, I hope it will be a 'wake up call" to our mental health problems, esp. being unable to institutionalize those who are a clear danger to others. Almost all the mass killers who have gone off the deep end in the last 30 years are those with a long and known history of troubles, as is obvious here, and similar troubles to boot. No accident that this came about since we made it nearly impossible to institutionalize the insane until they have killed innocent people.

Another example, in addition to the Daily Kos, which is, after all, like Palin in that it is only a political lightening rod/"education" source..

Here is the Democrat Leadership Council ( I think that is what this means..DLC) and their "targeting" "behind enemy lines" the areas/people that went Red in 2004..

Web Link

Again, my point is only to point out to those who wish to somehow put on their literalist blinders that the use of sights in ads is quite common in all arenas. Please remember the ad of Democrat Joe Manchin where the Cap and Trade Bill was used as a "target practice' and a bullet went through it ( he won election as Senator), and Obama calling those American citizens who oppose him "enemies" in speaking on Univision.

Violent rhetoric seems to de rigeur.

"How Long..."

You can't do it, can you? Just denounce the violent rhetoric. Be an American.

I note you still can't provide a link to the real (or cached) page, just a photoshopped mock up with a phony bullseye graphic added (note: not a gun crosshair like sarah). And yet you blissfully ignore all the evidence like sarah's RELOAD tweet. DLC? Can't stand them, but again, those are STATES targeted with a bullseye, not PEOPLE targeted with gunsight crosshairs. Did they say "reload"?

Denounce violent rhetoric.

Just like when President Bush ordered the DHS to start a study (released in 2009) on right wing extremism:
"Conservatives derided and dismissed an April 2009 report by the Department of Homeland Security warning law enforcement officials of a spike in homegrown "rightwing extremism" fueled in part by "antigovernment" sentiments..."

PDF of the report: Web Link

Since then? the 580/Tides/ACLU shooter, the IRS plane guy, the Pittsburgh cop killer, etc... Bush and the DHS were right, even when the fringe railed against the report.

Be an American: don't obfuscate - denounce all violent rhetoric that leads nuts to think it's okay to use violent means.

C'mon, take a deep breath and just do it.

re: your ignoring of the central point of denouncing violent rhetoric - you can blame Gov Reagan for shutting down California mental health institutions if you want, but many of us here are waiting for you to condemn one of the other probable causes - violent rhetoric.

Why can't you?

Palin spokeswoman says that was absolutely not a rifle target on Gabrielle Giffords in Sarah Palin's 20 targets poster. It is really a "surveyor's symbol". Blames liberals for thinking Palin's "don't retreat, reload" slogan has anything to do with gunfire.
Web Link
Web Link

"Palin spokeswoman says that was absolutely not a rifle target on Gabrielle Giffords in Sarah Palin's 20 targets poster. It is really a "surveyor's symbol". Blames liberals for thinking Palin's "don't retreat, reload" slogan has anything to do with gunfire."

Now that's real conservative courage for you. When the liberals attack, Palin not only pussyfoots, she pussyfoots from behind her shill. I'd have much more respect for Palin if she stood up on her own two feet and reaffirmed her targeting instructions. (The level of loathing, however, does not diminish.)

Any fool worth his second amendment rights can tell rifle scope crosshairs from a "surveyor's symbol." Makes you wonder if Palin's really the big moose hunter she claims to be. Maybe she's only a moose "surveyor."

Then there's Loughner, who can't follow even simple orders. He uses a pistol when his plain instructions specified a rifle. What kind of anarchy is the conservative movement coming to?

The real question is how can a mentally disturbed person get hold of a gun?

Tightening gun control is a must. Saying that a gun would protect you and your family from a madman is not on. A gun would not have protected any of the victims here.

Given Ms Sarah Palin's long advocacy for Civil Engineering and her well known love of surveying, her shill's explanation must make perfect sense to anyone hiding in a cave waiting for the end of the world.

Having spent years as a civil/structural engineer, "surveyor's symbol" is an idiot's explanation. If you want to know what "surveyor's target" looks like, please see: Web Link (level staff).

The posters here who are trying to connect the shooting of the Congresswoman with conservatives are morally bankrupt, and so full of hate themselves. This is a tragic event and they shouldn't try to use it as an opportunity to demonize people whose political views they don't agree with.

More information has come out about the shooter, his mental state, and that he has had a grudge against the Congresswoman since 2007, when he didn't get the answer he wanted from a town hall meeting he attended: articles from SF Chronicle: Web Link and this article in the Mercury News: Web Link

There is a big difference between "demonizing people" and demonizing the hate speech that may have inspired these killings. I think some of the Tea Party politicians have some legitimate ideas, but this talk of "Second Amendment remedies" and "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD" has no place in a civilized society.

In response to the headline "Just a coincidence..."..Yes, I think it is, any more than it is just a coincidence that she was on a "target" list by the DailyKos.

We need to focus on the fact that he was clearly mentally off-balance, as is obvious from his youtubes, the fear he elicited from fellow students, and the fact that he was kicked out of his college until he had a psych eval.

This is the result of an insanity that I am not qualified to name, but which is in line with a long list of massacres perpetrated by loner, unbalanced, seemingly highly paranoid individuals who are waiting for a catalyst to push them over the edge. Who knows what the catalyst was? Was it the target siting on the DailyKos or on Palin's page? Was it the comment by Obama to bring a gun to a fight? Who knows? One can not possibly know what pushed his final button.

To assign a "political affiliation" to someone such as this is simply crazy.

Instead, we should focus on what we, as a society, can do to protect such people from themselves..and to protect ourselves. We can't institutionalize them until AFTER they have done something that puts them into the penal system. By then it is too late for the innocent. We used to be able to protect them and us better, but our "civil rights" mentality deinstutionalized the former institutionalized, and prevents us from taking sensible action against those who are a clear danger.

As for "denouncing" violent rhetoric....this does no good. Obviously, no sane person would take, for example, the old expression "There is more than one way to skin a cat" to mean "go out and do it", but we are not talking about sanity here. In the same light, no sane person would take Obama's proclamation to bring a gun to a fight to actually do it...I would no more blame Obama for this statement if someone actually brought a gun and shot someone than I do any of the "targets" on districts by either the DailyKos or Palin.

Our civilized, educated society understands that "don't retreat, reload" by Palin does not mean take a gun and shoot someone. We understand "if they bring a knife, we bring a gun" by Obama does not mean "go shoot someone". Any talk of squelching "rhetoric" is highly misplaced. Focus on the insanity of those who massacre, and what we can do to defend ourselves against that insanity.

To Resident who believed a gun would not have protected any of the people hurt and killed in this massacre.

Yes, someone skilled in its use could have stopped the shooter after the first shot rang out. Preventing more shots= preventing more losses. Remaining defenseless is not a good answer.

R: Palin's spokesperson claiming these were not sights on the map..C'mon. I truly hope Palin does not "own" that ridiculous statement. That is an overactive friend trying to protect her and being silly.

By the same token, I suppose all these are really not "targets" either, just little circles, correct? Don't be silly.

Web Link