News

Mountain View protest sparks over worries that Trump won't accept 2020 election results

Local action is part of national 'Protect the Results' movement

John Lin and David Shawcross participate in a "Protect The Results" rally at the intersection of San Antonio Road and El Camino Real in Mountain View on Nov. 4. Photo by Magali Gauthier.

Dozens of residents took to the streets in Mountain View on Wednesday to demand that every vote be counted in the 2020 election, following concerns that President Donald Trump may try to subvert a fair election process and a peaceful transition of power.

Demonstrator John Emmel stands on a street corner and holds up a sign that says "Count Every Vote!" Photo by Olivia Treynor.

The protest at the corner of El Camino Real and San Antonio Road was one of numerous events taking place across the Bay Area on Nov. 4, responding to what organizers describe as worrying statements from the president. In recent days, Trump has challenged the validity of mail-in ballots and has floated the idea of prematurely halting the vote count.

Trump on election night tweeted without basis that the Democratic party is attempting to "steal" the election — a post that has since been hidden by the social media company for containing false or misleading statements.

Amid the protesters who held signs that read "Don't let democracy die" and "Count every vote," Mountain View resident Mark Lentczner said he felt compelled to join in the protest after seeing Trump's statements.

Lentczner said it's strange to be at a point where the country is debating whether to count votes and that he does not believe Trump's comments should be disregarded as empty threats.

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"Even if the electoral count decides a winner, we have an administration that is filing lawsuits as we speak," he said.

The local rally is part of the "Protect the Results" movement. Palo Alto resident Stephen Rosenblum, who helped organize the event, said the goal of the protest is to simply support that all votes be counted in the election, warning that Trump has no qualms with violating custom and legality to get what he wants. Rosenblum said he has no doubt that Trump won't go quietly.

Rosenblum said he is nearly 80 years old and has been through numerous presidencies, but he has never seen an election like this before.

"It's just a very unusual time for our country right now," he said.

Ingrid Rogers waves to passing cars at a protest demanding every vote be counted in the 2020 election in Mountain View on Nov. 4. Photo by Magali Gauthier.

Demonstrators at the corner of El Camino Real and San Antonio Road in Mountain View hold up signs demanding "Count Every Vote" on Nov. 4. Photo by Olivia Treynor.

As of 7 a.m. Thursday, former Vice President Joe Biden had a sizable lead in the presidential race, with 72.2 million votes and a projected 264 Electoral College votes, while Trump had 68.7 million votes and a projected 214 Electoral College votes. Key battleground states that had not been called for either candidate include Pennsylvania, Nevada and North Carolina.

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Other events taking place Wednesday include an all-day event at San Jose City Hall with protesters — including reverend and rabbi speakers — who demanded a peaceful transition of power.

Rabbi Amy Eilberg holds a sign that reads "Count Every Vote" alongside other demonstrators in Mountain View on Nov. 4. Photo by Magali Gauthier.

A larger network of more than 150 organizations called off coordinated nationwide protest on Wednesday, Rosenblum said, in large part because Trump has not taken any egregious action. "The president hasn't really done anything except threaten lawsuits to stop counting the ballots, but so far we haven't really seen any substantive effort to stop the proper ballot-counting process," Rosemblum said. "I'm feeling less anxious than I did yesterday."

So why move forward with the protest? Rosenblum said he felt it was important to give people the opportunity to attend a post-election demonstration and let their voices be heard on an election that has left many feeling anxious and uneasy. There were no fiery speeches over speakerphones, Rosenblum said, but enough to solicit support from cars passing by.

"We want to let people know that we're here to support democracy, and if they agree they can honk back."

Demonstrators on the corner of El Camino Real and San Antonio Road hold up signs with the message "Count Every Vote." Photo by Magali Gauthier.

Kevin Forestieri writes for the Mountain View Voice, a sister publication of PaloAltoOnline.com.

Follow Palo Alto Online and the Palo Alto Weekly on Twitter @paloaltoweekly, Facebook and on Instagram @paloaltoonline for breaking news, local events, photos, videos and more.

Mountain View protest sparks over worries that Trump won't accept 2020 election results

Local action is part of national 'Protect the Results' movement

by / Mountain View Voice

Uploaded: Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 7:55 pm

Dozens of residents took to the streets in Mountain View on Wednesday to demand that every vote be counted in the 2020 election, following concerns that President Donald Trump may try to subvert a fair election process and a peaceful transition of power.

The protest at the corner of El Camino Real and San Antonio Road was one of numerous events taking place across the Bay Area on Nov. 4, responding to what organizers describe as worrying statements from the president. In recent days, Trump has challenged the validity of mail-in ballots and has floated the idea of prematurely halting the vote count.

Trump on election night tweeted without basis that the Democratic party is attempting to "steal" the election — a post that has since been hidden by the social media company for containing false or misleading statements.

Amid the protesters who held signs that read "Don't let democracy die" and "Count every vote," Mountain View resident Mark Lentczner said he felt compelled to join in the protest after seeing Trump's statements.

Lentczner said it's strange to be at a point where the country is debating whether to count votes and that he does not believe Trump's comments should be disregarded as empty threats.

"Even if the electoral count decides a winner, we have an administration that is filing lawsuits as we speak," he said.

The local rally is part of the "Protect the Results" movement. Palo Alto resident Stephen Rosenblum, who helped organize the event, said the goal of the protest is to simply support that all votes be counted in the election, warning that Trump has no qualms with violating custom and legality to get what he wants. Rosenblum said he has no doubt that Trump won't go quietly.

Rosenblum said he is nearly 80 years old and has been through numerous presidencies, but he has never seen an election like this before.

"It's just a very unusual time for our country right now," he said.

As of 7 a.m. Thursday, former Vice President Joe Biden had a sizable lead in the presidential race, with 72.2 million votes and a projected 264 Electoral College votes, while Trump had 68.7 million votes and a projected 214 Electoral College votes. Key battleground states that had not been called for either candidate include Pennsylvania, Nevada and North Carolina.

Other events taking place Wednesday include an all-day event at San Jose City Hall with protesters — including reverend and rabbi speakers — who demanded a peaceful transition of power.

A larger network of more than 150 organizations called off coordinated nationwide protest on Wednesday, Rosenblum said, in large part because Trump has not taken any egregious action. "The president hasn't really done anything except threaten lawsuits to stop counting the ballots, but so far we haven't really seen any substantive effort to stop the proper ballot-counting process," Rosemblum said. "I'm feeling less anxious than I did yesterday."

So why move forward with the protest? Rosenblum said he felt it was important to give people the opportunity to attend a post-election demonstration and let their voices be heard on an election that has left many feeling anxious and uneasy. There were no fiery speeches over speakerphones, Rosenblum said, but enough to solicit support from cars passing by.

"We want to let people know that we're here to support democracy, and if they agree they can honk back."

Kevin Forestieri writes for the Mountain View Voice, a sister publication of PaloAltoOnline.com.

Comments

Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 9:23 am
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 9:23 am
42 people like this

The most important thing anyone can do to protect the results, especially should Biden win (but regardless) is to focus on communication and how to essentially stop a successful culture of lying for power from the right that has gone on for decades and saw it's culmination in this last presidency. We must focus on how we get Americans working together to rebuild our country, especially to get the right to become fiscally responsible and honorable again instead of tearing down our national power and government for personal gain.

Here's a Washington post opinion piece from 2019 that discusses "Why the Republican commitment to lying will outlast Trump"
Web Link

I hope the public will do more than just protest -- everyone desperately needs to keep talking directly to Republican lawmakers (and keep talking, don't retreat into a bubble if they don't seem to listen), possibly even mounting a high-profile effort by a neutral party to ask lawmakers to sign a pledge to avoid lying and engaging in certain kinds of misleading propaganda tactics, including the very common practice now on the right (from this potus) to deflect a due criticism by simply accusing the critic of exactly the same abuse but with no factual basis for it (or with such tenuous basis as to be grossly hypocritical). This kind of behavior is hurting our nation. It's not coming from the many individuals who have adopted it by example.

I would also challenge people, especially the media, to stop being so delicate about naming the source of these problems. When saying "WE need to be more respectful" or "WE need to do X", or saying things in passive voice, like "the country is so divided" -- as if everyone can fix it -- it ignores source of the problem (let's face it, studies show that the misinformation online is disproportionately coming from the right or even directly from the potus in some cases, and that serious political violence in this country has been overwhelmingly rightwing, those are just facts) -- and thus leaves the topic open to being distorted by liars (one of the main lies on the right has been perennially grossly exaggerating violence at Black Lives Matter protests which have been overwhelmingly peaceful, and exaggerating/misleading over any connection with Communism).

Another weird distortion from the media is focusing on people's opinions without any serious reflection in the same story about how distorted those opinions may be from lies (which again, are not equally coming from all quarters). For example, I can't even count how many stories I've heard about how people think Trump will be better for the economy, almost as many as falsely negatively portrayed Obama's record over the years which was objectively better than Trumps' by those same measures, and ignoring that the economy has been better under Democratic administrations for the last 100 years. Moody's and many others economists have projected a better economy under Biden than Trump. Not once did I ever hear a story in which the reporters challenged any of the tenuous opinions on the merit of the facts. We know Trump is a liar, why do so many accept everything he has said about the economy without any reflection or fact checking? Because of the absolute vacuum of any holding the Republicans to account for the lies.

The normalizing of the lies has put us in this position now of having to deal with protecting the vote. For lack of a good network of communication to support truth and honor, to support our nation, we will continue to be hurt long after this election regardless of the outcome.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 9:36 am
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 9:36 am
53 people like this

I would also note that in spite of all the coverage of this potus, I haven't seen one single story on how much his litigiousness has cost the public. Our judicial system costs the public billions of dollars, and is disproportionately used by the wealthy. USA Today did a story recently that showed Trump has sued over 4,000 times in the last 30 years to get what he wants, including harassing banks so badly they forgave hundreds of millions in loans. How much did that cost the American public which Trump clearly didn't pay anything for. He doesn't pay for the airports , ports, and other infrastructure that enable his lifestyle. He's not nor has he ever been a successful businessman -- he inherited hundreds of millions and got most of his money as a TV personality, but has nothing but astonishingly huge business failures that have cost the public plenty. The fact that he got away with so much by using lawsuits is germaine here, since so many people on the right believe the lies and give energy to the lying about the vote now, the division over the results, and even Trump's belief that he can get away with something like this. (If you can get away with borrowing hundreds of millions and suing to get out of it, this has to seem mild.)

Republicans, like Susan Collins ("I think he's learned his lesson") and the lying (including to themselves) are a serious problem here. Protecting the vote has to deal with that, or the result will be meaningless.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Nov 5, 2020 at 10:26 am
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 10:26 am
36 people like this

What the election result have told us is that there is no "blue wave". Most people in this country are sick of the D legislators who have squandered 4 years doing their "resistance' activity wasting tax payer dollars and on their phony Russia hoax. And worse is exposing the government agencies that we entrust with our security as a bunch of "frat boys" who are trying to run the country from their secret bee hive. And lying to everyone in the process.

And that Stupid Adam Schiff - his congressional district is home to the multitudes of displaced people from former soviet countries. Biggest Armenian community in the country. I grew up in that congressional district and have Armenian extended family. He is reading a script from the TV shows - Madame Secretary that has the exact same story line. The studios that produce those shows are in his district. And that is FACT.

Law suits? Our state AG has over 100 and proud of it. Some against the federal government and some against other states that "do not share our values". And if you have not noticed we do have a lot of "Russian" transplants in this location associated with the technology companies - One of which is Mr. Google and one of which is Ms. genealogy -"23".

And wait until the 2022 elections - you will see further erosion in the D progressive balance because people will be fed up with the increase in taxes and total incompetence running this state. You can have a story line but you must have "facts' and produce results. The state of CA has no results that benefit the taxpayers of this state.


YP
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Nov 5, 2020 at 10:42 am
YP, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 10:42 am
28 people like this

Signs are missing a key word. Count every LEGAL vote.


Lee Forrest
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Nov 5, 2020 at 10:59 am
Lee Forrest, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 10:59 am
31 people like this

The closeness of the 2020 election results simply indicates that 'divisiveness' in America remains strong & chances are, Biden will be no more successful at 'healing' the country than any other pipedreamer with an undefined game plan.

Chances are 2024 will be the key presidential election & both parties will need to come up with better candidates.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 11:13 am
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 11:13 am
42 people like this

@Resident-1
"Law suits? Our state AG has over 100" Umm, you do know what an attorney general does? And even if the same number of suits were waged over 10 years, it would still be a fraction of the number of over 4,000 lawsuits our potus waged over the last 10 years to bully, intimidate, and avoid responsibility to pay workers, etc. The AG is a public servant, and lawsuits engaged in on behalf of the public are one thing. Lawsuits by a private citizen using the courts for undue personal advantage, especially a private citizen who never pays taxes and expects the public to shoulder the costs of the judicial system, is another thing. The fact that someone like this could get away with that, and get away with the lying because of a political party that has become so reliant on lying for power, is really responsible for why we face this assault on our democratic process now.

The Russian influence peddling at the expense of American interests was not a hoax, and was deemed not a hoax by Republican investigators in the administration (imagine any Democrat ever getting to avoid an extreme withchunting partisan like Kavanaugh and Starr with Clinton like Trump did). The only reason he is still in office after such illegal, immoral, and anti-American behavior is because of just how far Republicans have come from their stated values.

Biden has already gotten more votes than anyone in history. That's a wave. Did they do a good job countering the wave of lies coming from the right (for decades, but especially now)? If the statements before the election of people who believed despite so much evidence to the contrary that Trump or Republicans would be better for the economy are any indication, No.

I've studied post-WWII Germany and how the Germans came/come to terms with how that could have happened, and how ordinary people could have been so complicit. One of the ways the Germans avoid anything like that from happening again is to study the rhetoric that enabled it, in order to avoid its influence ever again. Those who care about freedom in this country would do well to learn that lesson.

The lesson is also that Democrats needs to start studying and better understanding how to communicate the job and value of our national government, how to better turn out their own voters without having to manipulate and mislead/create a false framing like on the right. They really, really should learn to start talking about the significant historical advantage of Democrats with the economy. They need to learn how to deal with the lies, and not just treat their opponents like the politics has been competing public goods, it hasn't been since Nixon and Reagan, when the Republican party could be distilled as doing whatever it took to lie and stack power in favor of plutocracy (government of, by, and for the super-rich) against democracy (government of, by, and for the people). And they need to deal with the fact that decades of ignoring the need to overtly fight that battle have left both the Democratic party and democracy (and our nation, which has been hollowed out from the inside because of plutocracy) weak in the face of it.

And Democrats need to learn and share better the civics lessons of power literacy, how the balance of power in Congress had everything to do with, for example, ending reconstruction and Jim Crow laws that set back the cause of dignity and equal rights in this country 100 years. How the balance of power in Congress has everything to do with whether, as now, the Supreme Court becomes an illegitimate hotbed of extreme political partisans like Kavanaugh (who should be impeached for trying to use Bush v. Gore as precedent, a clearly partisan abuse of the judiciary, when even ultra-rightwing Scalia wrote that it was not precedent). The fight over the majority in the SCOTUS was really about the plutocracy, the unbroken conservative majority for the last 50 years having voted again and again in favor of the interests of the wealthiest and against the interests of ordinary people, and the result being 50 years of the wealth in this country siphoned from the poorest and middle class to the wealthiest. How the Democrats got through that confirmation without talking about any of those cases, without drawing the line to the charts showing the loss of income and wealth by the poor and middle class and virtually mirror gain by the richest, is a big part of the problem. They don't want to have to battle the Republican lies, so they stick with what they think will be easiest to defend, which Hillary Clinton's campaign should have already shown was a losing strategy.

Democrats tend to be surprisingly ignorant about the importance of sustained support of leaders at the ballot box even if they aren't perfect, for example, they voted in Obama and failed to show up at the midterms, not understanding the importance of the balance of power in Congress, and choosing to criticize the administration for not pulling left enough even while voters themselves failed to show the sustained support of the Congress to allow the president to actions they wanted.

Protests worked in the past because politicians felt political pressure because of what would happen if they ignored those protests. Not true anymore. Democrats have shown that they can turn people out to the polls, but they continue to miss the importance of communication and better restoring public discourse to truth for the benefit of our national interests, and sustained turnout.



Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 11:15 am
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 11:15 am
12 people like this

@ Lee Forest,
This potus has so damaged our national interests and security, we do not have the luxury of letting Republicans go back to lying to put their party over the national interests anymore. That problem MUST be a focus of a new administration or we will continue to weaken and be vulnerable to our enemies who are already sharpening their knives and interfering because of how vulnerable the Republicans' hollowing out our nation from the inside has made us. Even if their party faithful can't see it because of the false framing and lies, our enemies can and do.


Lee Forrest
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Nov 5, 2020 at 12:05 pm
Lee Forrest, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 12:05 pm
25 people like this

>"This potus has so damaged our national interests and security...That problem MUST be a focus of a new administration or we will continue to weaken and be vulnerable to our enemies..."

^ Speaking of 'enemies'...then the presumed 'new' administration will need to be even TOUGHER on the PRC & Iran...two countries that the Obama-Biden administration were somewhat soft on.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Nov 5, 2020 at 12:39 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 12:39 pm
18 people like this

So you had to bring up Germany post WW2? The US paid a lot of money to rebuild Europe post WW2 - the Marshall Plan. So come up to today - how is Germany doing? Germany is one of the king-pins of the EU organization which strongly controls their member countries - all aspects.

That is one good reason why we got out of the Paris Accord. The US got one vote on projects, each country got one vote on projects, and the EU organization got the final vote on projects. China and India were listed as developing countries so they had no goals or financial contribution. The US was expected to pony up funding for EU country projects which we had no involvement in. And who was involved? Mr. Jerry Brown who was trying to sell coal to China. Coal mined in UTAH (Mr. Romney). Brought to the Oakland port via train - train owned by very rich person. You can check this out on Wikipedia. The Paris Accord has gone through some changes and a number of countries are balking at the money required for their projects. WOW - they could really use US funding their countries projects. If you follow the EU then you can see how they struggle with their "concept" vs reality. It is struggling to keep it all together. Bossing other countries around has it's limits. And who is in charge? Has it's limits.

Mr. Obama was/is an Activist. That was/is his skill set. Typically activists don't have the skill set to manage projects once they have been initiated. We saw that in his health plan. His apologizing to the world for the US - throwing money at people so they would "like" us. Given his background - review on Wikipedia - he did not have any training in those skill sets. Other people had to manage his shortfalls.

DT is a business man. His background - his family came to the US during the Franco-Prussian War - 1870. He is totally familiar with the dynamics of France and Germany. My mother's father also came to the US as a result of the Franco-Prussian War. They did very well here - despite the 1918 flu when his grandfather died. My mother's father died at SU of the Flu. He has no mystery concerning the EU countries. He is square on - let them work out their issues.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 2:01 pm
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 2:01 pm
11 people like this

"So you had to bring up Germany post WW2?"

Actually, I specifically brought up the propaganda techniques that allowed millions of ordinary Germans to go through what happened, and how the country came to terms with what happened -- grandchildren asking their grandparents what they did or didn't do, and their understanding that it's not enough to just say they didn't know. The Germans studied how it happened, they studied how ordinary people could be so misled, and students study those in order to prevent such a thing from ever happening.

Democrats need to start paying attention to communication. Communication with the public. How their opponents use communication, how they use lies, how and why they use false accusations. And they need to develop ways to name those techniques and effectively counter them. This has to be an ongoing effort, and sad to say, it needs to be something that all democratically-minded people care about in order to figure out how to effectively counter the plutocracy before it is too late. (See the infamous Citibank memo that said America was already a plutocracy, and they had a point.)

When I was a kid, the reason this country was so successful, strong and vibrant, is precisely because our populace and economy were not stifled by concentrations of wealth the way Europe was. Well, the Europeans learned from that and we forget, or at least, we didn't recognize that's what Republican policies do/did to us.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:12 pm
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:12 pm
13 people like this

Also, for example, Democrats don't even bother to pay attention to how to change terms when people mean something different in order to prevent them from being misused.

In WWII Germany, the party used the public's fear of Communism in order to seize and consolidate autocratic power. The spectre of this gets used quite effectively today despite there being zero connection. The policies of Republican President Eisenhower, are further to the left of what the Democratic party is even daring to do today. Any "socialism" of Bernie Sanders is democratic socialism like in prosperous Sweden and much of Europe, not Soviet-socialism, in fact so much different from Soviet-style socialism as to deserve a different name, yet the terminology gets studiously misused by the right to any and all action to "promote the general welfare" in our nation which is a quote from the Constitution as one of the reasons the Constitution says our government exists. That is not the same as promoting a welfare state, and yet, there is a reason you never hear this roll off the tongues of people who seem fervently attached to the Constitution.

Before the election, the Pope released a scathing condemnation of "laissez fair capitalism" -- in other words "everything goes" capitalism in which scheming to cheat ordinary people becomes the easy way to success, also called "trickle down" capitalism -- which has been the core pursuit of the right since Nixon/Reagan, yet all the conversations seem to be oblivious to the difference between the kind of successful, fair and well-regulated capitalism we practiced under Eisenhower and the predatory plutocratic-dominated laissez-faire capitalism that was foisted on us by the right for the last 50 years.

Anyone siding with the pope gets accused of being a communist, rather than what is really true, that the plutocractic/laissez-fair/trickle-down capitalism is incompatible with fair capitalism/democracy/broad prosperity because absolute power corrupts absolutely and the super rich eventually take everything (which has objectively been happening over the last 50 years). The other counter to the Popes powerful message is to deliberately misuse the old word "neoliberal" which most aptly describes the Republicans of today and laissez-fair capitalism, NOT political liberals, in fact, the opposite.

Democrats don't engage in order to set things straight, or come up with better terms, or keep defining terms (like plutocracy being government of, by, and for the super-rich). You can hardly blame them given the way the Republicans use lies and the media against them, all the while manipulatively claiming they are being discriminated against. There is blame on all sides, but Democrats must begin to realize that it's not enough to just be the good guys who try their best for this nation, they must develop a better understanding of and practice of communication.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:14 pm
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:14 pm
6 people like this

Correction:

Any "socialism" of Bernie Sanders is democratic socialism like in prosperous Sweden and much of Europe, not Soviet-socialism, in fact so much different from Soviet-style socialism as to deserve a different name, yet the terminology gets studiously misused by the right to AVOID any and all action to "promote the general welfare" in our nation which is a quote from the Constitution as one of the reasons the Constitution says our government exists.


What Will They Do Next
Registered user
Old Palo Alto
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:46 pm
What Will They Do Next, Old Palo Alto
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:46 pm
15 people like this

@ Citizen .... so the left doesn't have a culture of lying? Biden, Hillary, Schiff, Swalwell, Schumer and many others going back decades and longer. Give us all a break. To say Trump has not been a successful business person is ridiculous. So he inherited some money. So what? He turned it into an empire of real estate holdings all over the world. He's had successes and failures like most people in business, but mostly successes. I would argue that our national interests have been protected by this president more than any other in decades, especially when it comes to leveling the playing field on trade deficits with China and other countries that have been taking advantage of us. And the peace he recently helped negotiate in the Middle East is a win for the world if it sticks. I could add more to the list but this post is already long enough. You say that democrats should learn about civics and the lessons of power literacy. How can they? They removed civics from the public school educational process many years ago. And you mentioned that Democrats need to learn to support their imperfect leaders and followed with they didn't show up for the mid terms with Obama in office. Well you're right. Obama was an imperfect leader. And Democrats lost the house. As Resident1-Adobe Meadows stated above, Obama was an activist. He certainly wasn't a leader, and he was an apologist for U.S. greatness and success. And finally, Democrats lie and use false accusations as much as any other politicians in D.C. We're still waiting for Schiff and Swalwell to produce the irrefutable evidence of the Trump collusion lie that they claimed to have in their possession for nearly three years. That's just one example. It's how they all roll. Certainly, you're not naive enough to think otherwise, are you?


Lee Forrest
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:47 pm
Lee Forrest, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:47 pm
15 people like this

>"In WWII Germany, the party used the public's fear of Communism in order to seize and consolidate autocratic power."

^ As a student of history, you are overlooking some other key factors.

The post WW1 Weimar Republic failed because Great Britain & France wanted to punish Germany & make it pay for the war. This in turn, crippled the German economy and gave rise to Hitler & the Nazi Party...a 'make Germany great again' movement.

The Allies learned from this experience & reconstructed both Germany & Japan following WW2. As a result, these two countries became friends of the United States rather than future adversaries.

Georges Clemenceau (France) & Lloyd George (Great Britain) were solely responsible for the rise of fascist Germany. Then 20 years later, both countries came crawling to the United States to bail them out of WW2...a rehash of American involvement in WW1.

Perhaps it's best to let bickering countries settle their own scores as there is no reason to risk American lives overseas for a bunch of pompous ingrates.


What Will They Do Next
Registered user
Old Palo Alto
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:53 pm
What Will They Do Next, Old Palo Alto
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 3:53 pm
20 people like this

"Democratic socialism" ala Bernie Sanders is still socialism. You can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 5:34 pm
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 5:34 pm
10 people like this

@What will they do,
"@ Citizen .... so the left doesn't have a culture of lying? Biden, Hillary, Schiff, Swalwell, Schumer and many others going back decades and longer."

No, they don't. They've been lied ABOUT for so long by political opposition that you believe that. Objectively, according to nonpartisan sources that monitor the public discourse, the majority of objectively verifiable misinformation is coming from the right.

No, Hillary Clinton is not involved in child porn rings, she's not "corrupt" -- the far, far greater persecution by far, far more venal rightwing partisans that the Clintons had to endure is evidence enough that there's nothing there, like there's nothing to "Obamagate" -- just a smear based on lies.

But your post is an example of the consequence of exactly what I was talking about. One of the tactics the potus introduced was to accuse everyone else of exactly their own misdeeds. The corruption from the potus and Republicans has been horrendous, this administration has been the worst swamp of nepotism and corrupt cronyism we have ever seen. But you just called courageous people who have stood up to it like Schumer and Swalwell the same labels, with no justification, to avoid any accountability for it. All of the people you mentioned have been hardworking public servants who have served with integrity despite constant and unwarranted personal attacks. I remember the day Clinton's mother died, Dole was on TV calling for his removal from office. When Trump gets sick from his own negligent behavior, Biden had the honor to avoid negative campaigning. I am a human being, so are many millions of Americans who voted for those people and live in our communities. Stop the partisan lying to constantly tear us down, you're only hurting our nation and helping our enemies.

And no, what is called socialism in Sweden is not socialism in the Soviet Union, not even close. Many "socialist" European nations now have more upward mobility than Americans have. Our own Constitution says it's in order to "promote the general welfare". This is exactly why the left really should come up with other terms, because what Sanders is calling socialism and what Republicans are trying to scare everyone with aren't the same thing.

The reasons I have heard given for why people vote for Republicans this time around are all based on bold lies just like that. If you have nothing bad to say about the left except what is manufactured out of whole cloth by the right, maybe they're not so bad.

The thing that people on the left have to get real about is that the right have been at the lies for so long, there is no amount of truth that will get through to people like the way Republicans keep throwing us into recession and getting us into huge deficits because of ineptitude and corruption rather than investing in our nation. If they didn't wake up after the 2008 economic disaster, they're not going to. The left really must wake up to the communications gap, as evidence by the post that prompted this reply.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 5:37 pm
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 5:37 pm
7 people like this

@Lee Forest,
None of what you are saying has anything at all to do with the powerful propaganda techniques employed in WWII Germany that German students study to this day to prevent it from happening again, and which Democrats would do well to learn about for how they keep getting slammed by them to the detriment of democracy today.


What Will They Do Next
Registered user
Old Palo Alto
on Nov 5, 2020 at 5:46 pm
What Will They Do Next, Old Palo Alto
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 5:46 pm
10 people like this

@ Citizen ... all I can say is WOW !!! You cannot back up anything you say with fact.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 6:24 pm
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 6:24 pm
12 people like this

@What While They Do,
On the contrary, I can back up everything I say with factual evidence.

For example, this study from Oxford looking at who shares the most misinformation:
Web Link
"ultra-rightwing “hard conservatives” shared the most misinformation while accounts that tweeted hashtags favouring Mr Trump dominated junk news posting on Twitter"

Older, right-leaning Twitter users spread the most misinformation in 2016
Web Link

The potus has been found to be the greatest source of misinformation about the pandemic, which is consistent with the over 20,000 lies he's told since in office. Republican lawmakers have been complicit and even responsible for not taking any responsibility.

I cannot think of a single thing that Republicans once stood for that they don't currently now practice almost completely the opposite of, or how anyone who didn't just believe all those lies could remain one.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 5, 2020 at 6:27 pm
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 6:27 pm
10 people like this

I exhort anyone who has been hurt by the last 4 years of bullying, lying, corrupt meanness coming from the Republican party and its leadership to stop just humoring the lies and distortions, and keep talking truth.

The Democrats really, really must realize that their biggest problem right now is to better communication.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Nov 5, 2020 at 7:25 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Nov 5, 2020 at 7:25 pm
16 people like this

Amazing - the D playbook- Go out and do or say something outrages then turn it around and attach it to your opponent - in this case the R party. Reality is that the D party has been in a rage for 4 years because HRC did not win. And all of those people who would benefit from her presidency lost out. The CIA and FBI have lost their luster and ability to rule the world behind the scenes. DT is pulling the troops out so there goes the dynasty of the affected people. We have had to listen to all of this anguish and anger for 4 years now.

Ms. Pelosi has turned into a Disney black witch shrieking away. She wants to be queen - busy trying to make that happen. Your local papers are in a stage of rage and have been for four years. And they import opinion people from the New York Times. Now that is a picture - just imagine what New York looks like now. The NYT has no position to spew hate in their opinion section.
And the SFC - owned by the Hearst Corporation. Just think the Hearst Castle - that tells you everything you want to know about them. Poke the bear and you are in trouble. The bear pokes back.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 6, 2020 at 3:05 am
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 6, 2020 at 3:05 am
9 people like this

Wow, that’s very meta. I just pointed out the right wing practice of turning an apt criticism back on the critic no matter how ludicrous and you just did exactly that with that practice.

Hilarious that you would even suggest Democrats have a playbook, though.


Citizen
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 6, 2020 at 3:11 am
Citizen, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 6, 2020 at 3:11 am
8 people like this

Many publications like The New England Journal of Medicine, Scientific American, that had never endorsed a President ever in over 100 years endorsed Joe Biden. Please stop with the juvenile lying bullying behavior that has so characterized this administration. It has hurt our national security.

For what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world but lose his soul. (For the love of money is the root of all evil.). I wonder what the potus has to say about the person who said that?


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