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on Jun 20, 2013
Nothing to see here, move along. Send your kids over to Cubberly, nothing to worry about..
There are homeless sleeping in vehicles behind Cubberley as those sleeping in the covered hallways. Even SF cleans out homeless encampments on a regular basis.
I do not know why are they allowed to stay all day at the campus. Last time, I went to pick up my child, could not find her, and I saw them laying down on the hallways, and I panick because one can never knkow in what state of mind they are. Her teacher has told the studetns to walk in pairs to make sure nothing happens to them. I guess is needed, they could come after the students and kids go home. I hope nothing happens to the students. This is bomb getting ready to go on.
As the mother of a homeless man this age who has slept in palo alto parks, a son who grew up in palo alto and graduated from its fine schools, surrounded by a loving family and community, let me suggest you imagine these kids are your own because despite your best efforts, they could well be your own kids. The picture gets a lot more complicated, and the solutions a lot more demanding of the empathy and intelligence that abound in palo alto and are grossly underleveraged for this and similar issues. Imagine Palo Alto invents a solution that can scale? Homeless and hopeless and probably hopped-up-on-meth young people sleep wherever they can in every community I know of...What if Palo Alto were as creative in the face of social problems as it is in the face of technical problems?
It is city officials fault for allowing homeless bums to sleep in their cars. Thanks ot city idiots...more crimes now
Let us not be so quick to condemn. Of course we want to protect our children, as well as other adults, from any harm. At the same time, I agree with the resident of the Esther Park neighborhood that we have to look at individuals and at the larger picture. Why are these people homeless? What are their needs? Let's consider how we Palo Altans can help alleviate this situation in constructive ways that consider people as individuals, not as "those bums." Those who are car dwellers at Cubberly include college educated people who have been unable to keep or find jobs, who look out for each other and try to maintain order among those who are at Cubberly. Try talking with some of them.
I am shocked to be reading this since I have been taking a dance class at Cubberly since 2005, every Saturday morning. I use to take in the evenings, Tuesdays and Thursdays as well as was thinking of starting up again, but after reading about this issue, that is not going to happen; hence, taking away business from my studio I love so much, but am more concerned about my safety. I wonder how many other people feel that way and how much money the business are losing because the city of PA is allowing homeless to sleep there? I was saddened to read the comment from the PA woman who's son in homeless and sleeps there, despite good schooling and loving family, is he mentally ill?? Maybe more the reason she should take responsibility for her child and let him stay with her, regardless of his age.
This is more fodder for the fires of indignation that want to ban car camping. Of course, there are always some bad apples to give everyone a bad name but this isn't indicative of the less fortunate majority. These people are just trying to get by, is the solution to marginalize them more?
Hey Pat Burt,
Think you can do something about the homeless overnighters at Cubberley (instead of merely pandering to developers)?
Or is this not your problem?
Homeless folks need a place to sleep and shower too. But they also need a way to change the dire straits in which they find themselves...why not move some counselling, mental health services, etc to Cubberly.
Meanwhile, more security and police presence is obviously needed if homeless people are using the Cubberly facilities since some of them are unstable and pose a danger to other homeless people trying to get by, as well ss to people using the community center. Really, the answer is not to pretend that we have no moral obligation to help folks less fortunate and I hope that as a community that we do not lose our sense of compassion. However, we should also be aware that some of these folks may be a danger to Palo Altans using the Community Center--or who would use it--and that at a minimum more police presence is needed. It would be better to set up a formal shelter than to allow folks to sleep in the hallways, which makes security difficult.
My kid just took a class at Cubberley and I was shocked at how many sleeping bags lined the outside of classrooms. I did not feel comfortable leaving my kid for an all day camp there. One homeless guy even stood right next to the bathroom looking at the young boys as they entered the bathroom. Just doesn't feel like a safe environment for kids.
Our patience with the situation is wearing thin. Most homeless/car dwellers are trying to get by but so are we! This is getting scary.
What do property tax paying homeowners have to do? We can't even have a visiting RV parked in front of our home, according to city ordinance, and yet camping at Cubberly is tolerated, as well as car dwelling in neighborhoods. Let me get this right, if my cousin comes in his RV and wants to park out front, that requires a permit. If Nameless Homeless does the same, it's not politically correct to have him "move on?"
We need to address what is clearly a significant homeless problem. I give thousands each year to InnVision here and Adobe across the bay, and of course hope the taxes I pay to the city can be used as well.
But it could not be more clear to me that Cubberley is a completely inappropriate place for a de facto homeless shelter. There are far too many childrens' services there, and it is far too big to patrol effectively. There is a huge childcare there. There is a library there. There are music and dance classes. The other evening kids were putting on a play in the amphitheater.
There are syringes and waste lying around, and people are increasingly uncomfortable walking around there. This has to be dealt with immediately, and these folks redirected to more appropriate places. The situation today is unacceptable.
>These people are just trying to get by, is the solution to marginalize them more?
Lorin, please invite one or two of them to live in your own home. Take care of them, and pay on your own dime. If all the others, who are sympathetic, would do the same thing, the problem would be significantly diminished. If you refuse to do so, then at least invite them to park in front of your own home. Gail Price should choose either of these two alternatives. Who among the sympathizers are willing to walk their talk?
If there are no takers, then fogetta 'bout the moralizing lectures. Car campers need to be banned in Palo Alto, as they are in our surrounding cities. The residential property owners in Palo Alto need to demand that their property values and lifestyle are not compromised by the car campers. To the extent that they do, and that they use this forum, I suggest that they use their real names...it has a lot more political impact than anonymous posts.
Palo Alto has Innvision, Streets Team and many services to help the homeless -- who are able -- get back on their feet. While many homeless have tear jerking stories, there is only so much we should and can do to help. Cubberly should not be a refuge for them. It is used by tax payers.
Let the so called religious community -- 42 of them by one count -- earn their tax free status and offer shelter and solace.
The civil rights of campers are more important to PAPD. For now. Too bad it will take one of your kids to be hurt before they will bother to do anything.
Interesting arguments here. Unfortunately, the word gets out about where homeless or drifters can gather without being required to move on and the population grows (downtown Santa Cruz as a case in point). I differentiate homeless from drifters in that I see the latter as a voluntary lifestyle, the former as a result of a range of unfortunate circumstances. While we should do everything possible to help the homeless, we have to be realistic about safety. There is nothing healthy or safe about allowing a homeless encampment in an area frequented by children. Hopefully PA police will address this sooner rather than later.
How come people don't demand the removal of all renters or homeowners when they perptrate crimes and by the looks of it, we should be more worried about the resident next door than than a homeless person sleeping outside in harming one of our children.
95% of crime committed by residents.
Palo Alto Police Press Releases
Armed Robbery Occurs Overnight at Colorado Avenue 7-Eleven Store
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Police Arrest Suspect in Downtown Sexual Battery
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Governor Appoints Police Technical Services Director to State Board
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Armed Robbery Attempted in Downtown Palo Alto
Revision Date: 5/16/2013
Strong-Arm Robbery Occurs in Downtown Palo Alto
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Tips Lead to Arrest of Saturday’s Credit Union Robbery Suspect
Revision Date: 4/17/2013
Man Robs Credit Union on El Camino Real
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Suspect Arrested by Milpitas Police Charged in Two Palo Alto Robberies
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Police Arrest Three for Auto Burglary in Downtown Palo Alto
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Suspect Arrested in Hotel Room Robbery and Sexual Assault Case
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Next “Virtual Ride-Along” Friday Night Is Part of Global Police Event
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Police Arrest Suspect for Stealing Thousands of Pills from Pharmacy
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Armed Robbery and Sexual Assault Occurs Inside Hotel Room
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Armed Suspect Robs Public Storage on East Bayshore Road
Revision Date: 3/3/2013
Police Arrest Suspect for Strong-Arm Robbery
Revision Date: 3/3/2013
Woman Robbed in Stairwell of Civic Center Parking Garage
Revision Date: 3/3/2013
Surveillance Camera Busts Residential Burglary Suspect
Revision Date: 3/2/2013
Detectives Arrest Suspects from December Liquor Store Robbery
Revision Date: 2/28/2013
Armed Suspect Attempts to Rob Man in Downtown Palo Alto
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Fraud Arrest Leads to Illegal Assault Weapon Arrest
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Suspect Robs Woman Walking Near Downtown
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Two Juveniles Arrested After Bringing Weapons to School
Revision Date: 2/13/2013
Armed Suspect Robs Man in Apartment Complex Carport
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Tri-City Anonymous Gun Buy Back Event Slated for February 23
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Man Attempts to Grab 11-Year-Old Bicyclist’s Arm
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Police Arrest Suspect for Indecent Exposure
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Pedestrian Struck and Killed by Vehicle on Embarcadero Road
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Armed Suspect Robs Pair Walking Near Downtown
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Suspect Exposes Himself to Woman in Fitness Center
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Man Robs Credit Union After Displaying Handgun
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Suspect Exposes Himself to Woman in Parking Lot
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Police Arrest Two Suspects for Saturday Night Carjacking
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Armed Robbery Occurs at Liquor Store
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
Common sense tells us that permitting a growing gathering of homeless or drifter encampment in a community center with classes, children, performances, schools is inappropriate. Cubberley's charter used to be as a fine centrally located high school; now there are an array of educational services/courses there - future use as I understand it is subject to question but such a fine location should be utilized by a spectrum of city residents and not be a "de facto shelter for the homeless," as was written in one news media report.
At a MINIMUM, after daytime hours, vagrants should be escorted out (perhaps the center needs to be fenced and gated) and a brief flier could list: Goodwill, Salvation Army, area churches with social services to homeless, the Opportunity Center, SS and disability offices, mental health resoures; seasonal shelters. It is clear there are public health issues; there likely will be conflict (as reported in the news today about Cubberley); children likely will be at risk of strong arm theft or panhandling or physical harm; public health of public bathrooms is a questionmark; cooking or urinating/defecating in public are other concerns beyond drinking alcohol in public.
Even public libraries, which have long tolerated the homeless, have certain guidelines that they reluctantly enforce owing to bathing in the restrooms, sleeping excessively in library chairs, porn use on the publicly-funded internet/terminals, unbathed to the point of public health threat status. At a certain point, law enforcement, charity, other government social services need to be actively involved and drifting along as seems to be happening at Cubberley is not suitable for the afflicted nor the public.
To correct you uneducated folk.
Innvision and downtown streets team only actually help out 4%
of the homeless.These money pitts are experts in getting grants and then "cook the books" to line their own greedy pockets while homeless people still suffer through with no hope of actually escaping the situation that society has put then in. Instead of
passing yet more oppressive laws against the impoverished, we should be addressing the root causes of the problem. If we just continue to condemn and punish those who need help. what does this really speak about our " modern Society?
> There are syringes and waste lying around
Come on .... I've been in Palo Alto, all over the city, up in the hills, out by the bay and I've never once encountered a syringe ... the image and symbolism of using syringe is just to tar homeless people with a bad image. It's easy, they have a bad image to begin with, they have lots of problems, so you just dump on them some more.
I'm not particularly fond of homeless people, but there is really no reason to seek to whip people up into a furor to attack a defenseless segment of the population - for what is really no reason. These kinds of behaviors are just bullying and being mean for the sake of people who are just mean and want to take their misery out on other people. I think probably most of the homeless have had more than their share of that, which is probably why most of them don't bother people much anymore.
If the report in Palo Alto Online is not an excuse to vilify any group that has a criminal as a member then it should not be an excuse to attack the homeless.
Sorry CrescentParkAnon but the homeless are making a bad name for themselves without our help. Just yesterday a homeless man was peeing on the wall of Whole Foods Market right in front of me and my kid as we walked by. How can I feel sorry for that? I told him that Whole Foods had a public restroom inside that he could use and he told me to shut up. In my opinion, there are way more negatives than positives regarding the homeless.
It is a dangerous situation, and it is currently out of control. If the city can provide more facilities with showers (rather than just designating Cubberley as the de facto place for homeless), we may start making some progress. Brushing off the complaints, and letting homeless only use Cubberley is an ignorant and selfish action. Otherwise, I invite all Palo Altans to open up their parks (next to their houses) to homeless people.
I don't feel like these folks are near my house or park. I feel like they're near my school. This center has an inordinate number of children's activities in it. Probably a thousand a day pass through it (on weekdays). Again: library, childcare, dance, music, camps.
To better understand this situation, don't think about inviting the homeless to camp in a park near you. Think about inviting them to camp at a school near you, perhaps even one where your kids go. And pretend school is open until 6 or even 8pm, like the library. Sound good?
The situation, as it is, is untenable.
This is everyone's problem, whether you like it or not. It needs to be dealt with a manner that will lead to solutions that help everyone. Claiming that all homeless are bums and vagrants does not solve the problem. Saying that if you feel sympathy for them means that you have to take them into your home is a ridiculous claim. And saying if you don't you are not "walking the talk " ( whatever that ultra ridulous statement means) and are dumping the problem on others. Rather than address the problem some selfish people vilify the homeless nd those that try to,help them .
Personal responsibility and motivation also are part of this. I know full well about disabled persons and others with difficulties - who deserve society's help; peeing on the side of Whole Foods in broad daylight in front of anyone including kids is just giving the middle finger to society. Many of us give time and money to social services and other charities.
It is obvious that behavior is part of the equation.
Craig how about you "walk the walk", go over to Cubberley and evict them, or are you "dumping off the problem on the rest of us." Your solutions are not more constructive than anyone else's, the suggestion is just another non-solution that does not deal with the underlying problem, it just makes it someone else's problem.
Cubberley DOES lose business due to those folks, unfortunately. I quit taking classes there because of them. To pay the extra fee for being a non-resident & deal w/those folks/be concerned for my safety AND be streetwise due to living in EPA is too much for me 'n my posse. Several of my neighbors & I took classes there on & off for a long time, but not anymore. It's a shame, because these folks need help, but the rest of us need to feel safe. If I wanted a classic San Fran experience, I'd take classes there!
>Saying that if you feel sympathy for them means that you have to take them into your home is a ridiculous claim.
Wrong! It is completely consistent with walking your own talk. Otherwise, you want to dump them off on other people/neighborhoods. [Portion removed.]
>Craig how about you "walk the walk", go over to Cubberley and evict them, or are you "dumping off the problem on the rest of us." Your solutions are not more constructive than anyone else's, the suggestion is just another non-solution that does not deal with the underlying problem, it just makes it someone else's problem.
I don't need to provide an ultimate solution, but I can affirm, with certainty, that there will be no possible solution, without a ban on car camping. Street camping must be outlawed, otherwise, the police will have no arrows in their quivers. No, I am not going to evict them on my own...I am not a vigilante. I just want our police to have the tools to take action.
Here we go,again with Craig-- if you do not share his view, then you need to " grow up and become an adult" . Thebare plenty of people who are tryingnto,address the issue but cannot take these people into their home ( and i am shocked that craig does not understand why not everyone can take in homeless people-- unless it is a complete lack of compassion or empathy)I am not talking about dumping the problem off on other people/ neighborhoods ( though Craig's plan to drive the, from the city is just that) . I am talking about attempting to address the issue and reach a solution. Craig's solution is " to hell with them" -- very adult , I must say.
The police have stated that they will not go around looking for car campers even if the law is past. Craig will have to go and find them and report them to,the police
. Arrows in their quiver-- how cute.
Yes, as anonymous said, it's the behavior of the homeless that is the problem. They give the middle finger to society instead of making an effort to be productive in society. By the way, the homeless lady that sits in front of Starbucks doesn't have cancer and the homeless guy that sits in the median turning onto University Avenue off of El Camino did not lose his family to kidnapping Ninjas.....
I'm guessing CPA doesn't have any car campers in front of his house every night or spends much time at Cubberly, etc. Me thinks he would sing a different tune otherwise.
Just like some will say "walk a mile in the homeless' shoes", the same can be said for those who have to deal with the camping and/or homeless everyday in front of their homes, at Cubberly, in front of their businesses, sidewalks, etc.
There is no perfect formula to solve the problem. But to outright dismiss someone's experience dealing with or encountering these issues is pure denial.
To the pro-homeless/camping is OK crowd: Trying to shame or guilt-trip someone into accepting your moral POV over the homeless isn't going to work. Frankly, as you have read in this thread and the previous camping/homeless threads, it just galvanizes those who want an all-out ban. And if you haven't figured it out already, there a few people who have had it and no longer have the patience to want to endure the issue any longer.
The anti-group wants legislation/laws/codes to ban the camping. So far the pro-camping/homeless group only offers up sermons and guilt. Perhaps the pro group should consider putting together a viable counter proposal to the proposed ban. Clearly leaving things as they are is not going to work and *is* going to result in the ban - it is only a matter of time.
Proposals, such as using the Baylands parking lot - supervised, etc., get punched down because of the "not in my park, parking lot". I find this funny because the same critics accuse their fellow citizens of the same "nimby" attitude when it comes to camping in their neighborhoods.
Time for the pro crowd to come up with some viable alternatives (which relieve the camping issues in the neighborhoods) or step back and let the majority move forward.
Good points, Crescent Park Dad. It's not really that strange to want to ban car camping - all the communities except yours have done so on the peninsula.
I sometimes wonder how many of these car campers & homeless are sex offenders, since a great many of the 290 registrants go homeless. The non-problem ones are obviously not the issue. There can't be that high a number in Palo Alto of the non-problem ones that they couldn't get help to be housed, right? Or not? Is it that much of an insurmountable of a problem?
One of the issues often not discussed are the homeless who prefer to live that way, or have little choice because they're addicts. The severely mentally ill & the working homeless are different categories - the former tough to ongoingly help & the latter should be doable. I'd love to know if my perspective on the above is skewed. Besides my own observations, I base these loose categories on the homeless served here in EPA via nonprofits I've worked with.
There has been much discussion over the past year on the Greenmeadow Yahoo group. This is literally in their backyard and, as such, has been a core topic of concern. I am completely sympathetic.
I saw this happen in another liberal neighborhood in a metropolitan city to the north. It is naive to think opening the showers is merely serving the "less fortunate of our own". True there have been several long-time car campers at Cubberley and they have not created a problem. Opening the showers for them was a sympathetic act. Now the word is out. Come one Come all. I am glad my son is no longer attending pre-school there, but have absolute sympathy for the school and families that remain affected. Plus the dance center, language and senior classes, etc.
Those who say "we must help", should and can do so via many organizations. Do not place guilt on the surrounding community until you agree to be egalitarian about this and also open Rinconada and the Stern Center for showers and camping. Watch the homeless population explode in the Community Center neighborhood, Old Palo Alto, how about Crescent Park who has also weighed in w/a guilt trip.
Meanwhile we have a school over-population problem and the City and PAUSD sits on their hands regarding the Cubberley location.
The thing is what you want is for society to deal with the homeless by kicking them out of town. The people you ask to invite them into their own homes, are asking society to deal with them by helping them.
You really arent that different, both of you are asking society to solve it, just with a different solution. Now if you insist they deal with it 1:1, then you should step up and deal with it 1:1.
Personally I agree, I think the camping at Cubberley should be brought to an end, but I think you are demanding of others what you are not willing to do yourself.
>Personally I agree, I think the camping at Cubberley should be brought to an end, but I think you are demanding of others what you are not willing to do yourself.
I did it once, and it was not a positive experience, in the end. The sympathizers, like yourself, can/should give it a try. Then talk to me.
2 many post to read. First of all Palo Alto police is the most kind and trained police department that I know of. They do know us and talk to us in loving non threatening ways. What ever happend behind cubberly, for me not even reading the article of the author is not a problem. I know what the problem is and who the trouble maker is. It's only one person, who is abusing and creating turmoil. He thinks he is the King and he uses other vulnerable homeless as scapegoats . So forget about whatever happend. I will tell you right now who is creating the problem and dealing drugs. His name is Andrei; 6 plus feet black male and he has 2 cars: one of its a color of blue sitting there at least for 1-2 years . Andrei is a drug dealer. Palo Alto police please first tow that blue car out and Then go arrest him. I will be a wittiness about his drug use, distribution of drugs and abusing and bullying and setting up fights to save his ass. You can get my # from Palo Alto on line.. I don't want to be a snitch , but when it comes to bottom line of eliminating sociopaths ; I will support the homeless and the community and the ones who have no Clue: so Palo Alto police , please go arrest Andrei, if he is reading this the smart man he is.. he will be gone; yet tow the blue car out of there and leave us homeless alone. Thank you
Andrei is violent. He might have a gun, behind his smiles and trying to be buddies with Palo Alto police, the closer his secrets bs is coming into surface, I think he is a pimp too. Go figure. For sure I don't want to be penalized for speaking out. I'm scared for sure.
His vehicle information; a white color older model jeep
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