Kids and Palo Alto: What Can We Do? Palo Alto Schools & Kids, posted by Can We Talk?, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:40 pm
It seems in the last few days as if our Town Square Forums regarding Palo Alto students have become a bit kinder and more thoughtful, especially the ones that continue to look at the train suicides. My observation is that we all care deeply about the well-being of our kids, and that we all understand that there is no singular cause behind these tragedies, and no singular magic answer to stop them. And we seem to be moving past the days of loudly blaming each other. (It's the schools! It's the parents! It's the train! It's the media! It's whatever-issue-I'm-mad-about-right-now!)
There was a wise observation on another thread recently, one that many of us can't shake: "we have seen the problem, and it is us.' All of us. Those that pressure, and those that just go along with it. We value success. That's not a bad thing, but somewhere we let that get to the point where where many of our children no longer have the space to enjoy being a kid (or a teenager). Or the freedom to make mistakes. Or fail. We may not see ourselves as the instigators, but when we are afraid to speak up (afraid our child will be benched or demoted or cut or left out) we are all, to use a popular buzz word, enablers.
What can we do? I'd like to propose this thread as a place for positive ideas. Maybe we can avoid name-calling, and try not to tell the previous poster why they are a moron. Just ideas. If an idea has flaws, maybe it will prompt another person to look at it from another point of view, and see possibilities. We are smart people. Anybody have any ideas? I'll start:
Posted by Can We Talk?, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Some ideas, in no particular order:
1. No Homework Weekends. Every weekend, every-other weekend, or even just one weekend a month.
2. Make school activities end at 7 pm. Or 6 pm. A certain number of exceptions, perhaps, for games and performances. But no late night practices, rehearsals, work sessions. Turn out the lights. Send kids home.
3. Let breaks be breaks. We already have a new “no homework” rule for Winter Break. Enforce it. Let teachers know their classes are not “exceptions.” Don’t send forms home requesting parent signatures to “approve” your exception.
4. Let summer vacation be summer vacation. No papers can be due over the summer, even for AP’s. I know AP’s are supposed to be college level classes, but a lot of parents can’t remember ever getting out-of-semester assignments during actual college.
5. Revisit AP’s altogether. Perhaps limit them to one or two per Junior, two or three per Senior. Transcripts would reflect that those limits are imposed by the district, so kids don’t worry they will be viewed as slackers. At least one high-performing district back east is eliminating AP’s altogether. In that light, self-imposed limits are not unreasonable.
6. Encourage the entire community to voluntarily commit to No Stuff on Sundays. If we really don’t have enough fields/practice spaces/facilities to meet our needs during the other 6 days, let’s address and find solutions to that problem. This goes for coaches, clubs, the Y, teachers – everybody. Minimalist version: voluntarily limit Sunday non-leisure activities to noon to 4 pm. Let’s all try to give kids one morning a week to sleep in. Give us all at least one night a week to have dinner with our families.
7. Give every student a couple of “S.O.S.” passes. Or one per class. When they hit that awful night where all the projects, papers, exams, games and performances seem to be colliding at once, they can use a pass to get a 72 hour deferment on one assignment.
Will they get this sort of things as adults, in “the real world”? No, but they are not adults yet.
8. Less homework, period. Or assignments staggered by department (“No math on Wednesdays”). Or…. something?
9. Wherever possible, offer low-pressure versions of popular activities. Think of it as a “J.V.” or “Intramural” version of debate, theatre, robotics, journalism etc. Allow kids to try new things, and connect with other kids, without making a 110%, 24-7 commitment.
Please, join in. Add ideas that would have a positive impact on your kids and kids you know. Keep the list going.
Posted by palo alto mom, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 4, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Great ideas!
Most of them would require buy-in from the school board and administration.
I would add:
No STAR testing during AP testing
No other tests, or major papers/projects due for Juniors and Seniors during AP tests
No other tests, or major papers/projects due for Junior and Seniors the Monday after SAT or ACT tests
No busy work homework (coloring, maps, posters, collages, etc.)
Do group projects in class (for example, the big Paly physics projects) it is very hard and stressful for the kids to try to not only find the time needed to complete the project outside of class but to also coordinate their schedules
Modify what homework needs to be made up when a student is sick - especially this year with so many kids out
Teachers with a positive attitude.
Make school more like the real world:
When you are really sick, you can stay home and just be sick
When you are not at work, most people don't have to work (aka homework)
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 4, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Kids need to get some more fun without challenges.
Old fashioned youth clubs/hang out time, with ping pong, basketball, pinball, ice cream floats, or whatever the modern equivalent, but without it being competitive and high stress.
Posted by mom, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 4, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Once a week, designate an UNPLUG day
encourage everyone to unplug form all the electronics and social (not social) networking,
it costs billions of dollars to companies in lost productivity time when their employees use it, and probably costing young among the best years of their life.
Ask schools to discourage the need to have a Facebook account to do homework or to talk to a teacher.
Posted by Paly Alum, a member of the Palo Alto High School community, on Nov 4, 2009 at 8:20 pm
I completely agree with all the above and believe me, have considered moving elsewhere. Nowadays, we have teachers who change deadlines, are ambiguous on instructions, don't collect homework the day it's due, lose homework, don't write feedback on homework, etc. You think it's possible for them to organize those ideas of yours? PAUSD is nothing like it was back in the 80s. Sure, we had the boring teachers, but teachers were all much more precise, predictable and responsible back then. But it has changed, and we must also, otherwise, those who can't take the heat should get out of the kitchen.
Posted by Erin, a resident of the Leland Manor/Garland Drive neighborhood, on Nov 4, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Paly Alum- I'm guessing you just pissed off a lot of really good, hard-working teachers. Please don't stereotype them all because of a few bad experiences. It's very insulting. Gosh. It's a wonder why teachers choose to not teach here when there are people assuming the worst about them all the time.
I am in this post to add one simple idea. The over-scheduling starts so early. Preschool even. Just stop it. Kids don't need constant outside activities. They just need to play. There is so much they learn through play.
Posted by palo alto mom, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 8:19 am
Erin -
You must not have a kid in high school! I agree that most teachers are terrific and hard-working, but the difference between our elementary/middle school teachers (who are as a generally pretty terrific) and the high school teachers is tremendous.
I have 2 kids at Paly and I would say 20-25% of the teachers fit the Paly Alum's description of changing dates for test/projects (often the night before they are due and posting the change on Facebook), loosing homework or not turning it back for months (literally), giving little or no feedback, not actually teaching what is on the test or not really teaching much at all. They may know their subject, but not how to teach it. I would also say that a good percentage don't really care if the student learns or not.
Posted by mom, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 8:46 am
Erin,
what should piss off good teachers are the bad teachers
if the idea of bad assumptions about them could please deter bad teachers from teaching here or anywhere.
Bad teachers are a cost to students, cost to Administrators, to parents, and to the entire system.
In this district, the difference is that good and bad teacher never go unnoticed.
If a teacher creates a positive environment, is organized, and motivates the kids - that gets love and respect from parents like nobody's business. We talk, and yes we don't let up.
no worries if that scares some bad teachers away.
As for over-scheduling and play. Today play is scheduled. You don't let kids run around by themselves, you don't always have neighbors to play with, and non-competitive activities are also play activities. Kids play sports, dance, and whatever to get them exercise, play, and socialize. Not all of us schedule our kids' life to resume build.
Posted by pa parent, a resident of the Fairmeadow neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 9:24 am
I really think the UC's admission process needs to change in order to allow our teenagers to be just that, teenagers. If the UC's ran a lottery for admissions (entering all students who meet the entry requirements, SAT scores, grades) the "wall of rejections" would have less of a sting if students knew they were good enough to get in but the final selection was not something they could control.
Here are my suggestions for change from another post:
While some parents put too much stress on their kids, I think most parents here try their best to be supportive in good ways. The larger problem is what is happening in our high schools:
1. What would be an A in another high school can be a C here. I have known students who received an A in Mt View in AP English but only made a 3 or 2 on the Eng. AP final test. But in PA, that can be the reverse -- a student gets a C grade but makes a 4/5 on the final AP test. Some teachers seem to think only so many students in a tough AP class can get an A or B. They have tricky tests to keep the numbers down to make less A's or B's. This is not fair and very stressful.
2. Very able students are made to jump through hoops to get in some of the difficult classes and some do not make it in.
3. For some classes, students are expected to teach themselves over summer or even during the school year so getting a tutor is necessary. Private schools prepare for the next level year by year.
4. The UC's have become very difficult to get into. Students are expected to take AP's, have very high grades, participate in activities, and perhaps most important, do community service. They are expected to be perfect adults in their teens! No wonder this is stressful -- and it's too much. Should parents encourage their children not to try for the UC's? Don't take AP's? That sounds like to accept being dumbed down -- which is stressful too and wrong. Change these requirements and go to a lottery system if necessary for getting into the UC's.
Clearly many students are very stressed out, and the above suggestions for change are doable today. That would be a good start in helping our students have a solid academic preparation but still let them be teenagers with some down time to be themselves. There is far too much emphasis on trying to build a resume for the Universities. That's where real change is needed.
Posted by wondering, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 9:41 am
I posted this on the other thread (focusing on the tracks)...
I've been wondering. What if there was a place available for struggling teens to just "be"... like a safe haven... where they could unplug, be anonymous, and not have any expectations foisted upon them... where they could just take a breather, a time-out, in a safe place of calm. Would that be helpful and would teens actually use it?
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 9:59 am
Wondering
This may not be exactly what you were looking for, but this thread listed many church youth programs in our community where kids can be themselves without expectations and it seems that there are many that use them and they are open to everyone who wants to use them.
Posted by concerned, a resident of the Leland Manor/Garland Drive neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 10:24 am
I agree 100% with the first poster. I am the mother of a child now an adult. I remember the high school days, and they were certainly not like they are today. We as adults need and deserve our downtime. I look forward to the weekends where I can just relax, try and forget about work, and just be. If I feel like doing something I do. If I don't, then I don't. I am an adult, so I can have a say in my activities. But I believe the kids don't have a say. They are expected to have every minute filled with school, homework, band practice, tennis lessons, etc...when do they get downtime? How would adults like it if they never got away from work (and I know there are people out there who really don't), but were tied to work every single minute of the day? If a parent realy feels that thier child has too much to do, let that parent step in and fix it. If enough parents take a stand, then maybe the schools and the kids will listen. The schools are not raising your kids, you as parents are!
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 11:04 am
For those of you who think that teachers should speak to the kids rather than use Facebook, here are two examples of how difficult it is for teachers this year.
One child was out sick at the beginning of the week and on returning found that six students were out from the English class for the same time. The teacher extended a couple of deadlines and contacted the class through Facebook knowing that all the students would keep on Facebook even though they were home sick and find out about the deadlines.
Another child came home yesterday and said that the teacher was really pleased in one class as it was the first day since the first day of school that every single student was present in class and not absent.
We have a heavy year of absences due to sickness and I say kudos to teachers who create a facebook group (they don't have to become facebook friends) to contact their students. This is the way the kids communicate all the time and it is good imo that the teachers are using up to date technology to make sure that everyone in the class, including those who are absent, get important information while they are out sick.
This is not replacing face to face contact, but it is enabling those who are sick to find out what is happening.
I am sure there are other instances, but this is one that my family has experienced this week.
Posted by Erin, a resident of the Leland Manor/Garland Drive neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 11:38 am
What I was referring to was that we are, and always have been a place that scares GOOD teachers away. Maybe that's why we get stuck with some bad teachers. You said yourself that 25% of the Paly teachers fit your stereotype. Well, why aren't you giving any credit to the other 75%??
As for face-to-face communication with students, there isn't time for any! Maybe if we increased the time between classes some kids would hang back to talk to the teacher or a teacher could ask to speak to a student. Instead they have just a few minutes to run to the other side of the campus to their next class.
And please don't assume that just because I don't have a child in high school doesn't mean I don't know what's going on there. You don't know my connections and it's very condescending.
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 11:57 am
Confused,
You are assuming that kids are not on Facebook until they have to join the class group. The kids are on Facebook more than they check their email. While sick they are likely to check Facebook to keep in touch with "the World" rather than check email. The teachers are not making anyone join Facebook, just using the same system the kids are already familiar with.
Oh, and for those who are not aware, most homework now has to be handed in through turnitin.com to prevent plagiarism!
Posted by Eliza, a resident of Menlo Park, on Nov 5, 2009 at 12:04 pm
And it would be good to keep in mind that kids shouldn't be so exhausted by Saturday or Sunday (or both) mornings, that they can't participate with family and friends in those mornings' or afternoons' religious services. Spiritual grounding will provide them with a foundation to carry them through difficulties far beyond adolescence, and it's a true shame to have the kids "sleeping in" because they're too tired to participate.
Posted by Paly Alum, a member of the Palo Alto High School community, on Nov 5, 2009 at 1:22 pm
I agree that teachers should use email or in-class versus Facebook. There are parents who do not want their children on Facebook due to bullying, time-sink, etc.
Erin, you may have your connections, but you still have young children, so you are speaking outside of your area. I agree that there are good teachers also but many irresponsible teachers also.
And we have found both types at Jordan and Paly. Perhaps they are also being lured away by Facebook, forums, and computer surfing as the rest of us are. I just don't understand why teachers would not collect homework on the day it's due - how is that teaching students responsibility? Or changing deadlines? Can't they plan appropriately so deadlines don't need to be changed?
And what's with extending deadlines because a few are sick? And posting on Facebook because students are more likely to check Facebook than email or In-Class? So the teachers are teaching children that the world will revolve around them - they can be sick and deadlines will change; they can ignore homework because it won't necessarily be collected the day it's due; they can ignore In-Class and instead engage in their social network for homework updates. Huh??!!
Posted by wondering, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 2:04 pm
please let's get back to the topic at hand with constructive thoughts. i thought the suggestions at the beginning were excellent... as well as the idea of limiting the max number of AP classes a student can take. i imagine that it might leave a *little* mental health time for becoming a little more human.
also, i'm curious about grades being skewed as compared to other schools... do the teachers always try to impose a bell-curve on the grading? and why? i attended 3 different high schools (another state) and found differences in grading systems, honors classes, etc, but not THAT different.
this is a community of highly-educated people... but when a lot of highly-educated people (big fish) all end up in Palo Alto (small pond) and you put their bright children on a bell curve, really bright kids can end up feeling pretty rotten.
btw - i have heard of many students who have gone on to college and find they are bored their freshman year because they overdid it in high school. what's the rush to get out and start working a year early?
Resident's response to my earlier question.... What if there was a place available for struggling teens to just "be"... like a safe haven? was to look at the religious communities and organizations. thank you! it's wonderful and inspiring info, but i'm really getting at something a little different.
something not so organized or structured... for those kids who are in a crisis and don't have that family/religious support network. a safe drop-in center. Would that be helpful and would teens actually use it?....
Posted by Mil, a resident of the Old Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I agree with all those great ideas. Teachers are doing the best they can and I am convinced that many of them are overwhelmed with the amount of work they have to produce in order to remain relevant to the school district. It seems to me that there is a dichotomy between what we want for our kids and what we do for them. On one hand we want our kids to be relaxed and have some down time, which is right by the way! On the other hand many of us live, move to Palo Alto because of the high caliber of our schools. As a parent of a Paly student, I am not sure that we could accomplish those two competing tasks at the same time.
But this is great start. Let us continue brainstorming and who knows! We may well fine the panacea for our stressed children in Palo Alto.
Posted by anonymous, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Sorry to have to respond this way. There are some great suggestions for de-stressing teens listed here BUT be fully aware that, ironically, certain parents will welcome these as they will permit THEIR teens to get ahead.
If you have YOUR child in the non-competitive activity, not only will these parents forbid their teens to participate in those casual get-togethers, they will perceive a competitive advantage and continue to pressure them to earn brownie points (artificial awards awards, ridiculous hours of community service at a place the student could care less about, playing an instrument the child cares little about, etc.), in order to plump up their resumes for college apps.
You should see what students list on the extracurricular and activities, community service, awards/honors sections of these apps nowadays. Many families here plan for this, and strongly pressure their kids to work hard at certain sports, music, CS, rather than letting the teen go along serendipitously finding activities, jobs, etc. that appeal to him or her. And yes, your child WILL be competing for limited slots in colleges (and I am NOT only referring to Ivy League, by any means)
Posted by Erin, a resident of the Leland Manor/Garland Drive neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 2:55 pm
The way this whole discussion has played out is exactly what's wrong with our kids and our town. Heaven forbid anyone who doesn't have a child in high school right this minute even have an opinion. Doesn't matter if they are alumni, have relatives who are staff, have a parent who was on the school board. Just disregard their opinion.
My one hope is that those of us with small children can see what's currently happening and make a concious effort to change the environment for our children.
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I am sorry but I thought it was helpful for a teacher with a large number of sick children to extend a deadline for the sake of everyone's health. Do we really want to push a child with H1N1 back to school before they are healthy enough because they need to take an important test or get too far behind? I thought that extending a deadline by a sympathetic teacher was causing less stress for our kids, not teaching them that the world revolved around them.
Posted by palo alto mom, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Erin -
I didn't intend to be condescending, I was personally really surprised at the difference in the teachers at the high school level, totally unaware until I saw how it impacts my kids. And I do compliment the other 75%, both in person and to the people they work for. I'm very grateful for the teachers who go that extra step.
Facebook vs InClass vs Email
Facebook - form a group that the students can join, very little tech savvy needed, one post to share info
InClass - very useful, BUT high learning curve, many teachers need support to get started, went down last year and lost weeks of grades
Email - would require the teacher to input the email addresses of their students, could up to 150 kids per semester
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 3:57 pm
The Drop at Mitchell Park has been closed due to the work (which hasn't started) to update the library/community center. Who knows when it will reopen?
Posted by High School Parent, a member of the Palo Alto High School community, on Nov 5, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Please, too many people on PA Online go on about the high schools in Palo Alto like total experts when they do not have any direct experience. I've seen this too much lately. If you have high school students, fine share your experience, if you don't, then stop freaking out and trust your kids. They will do just fine in high school, you'll be surprised. Your kid may even want to take AP courses, and if they don't, then that is fine and FULLY supported too. You probably moved here because of the great schools, and that's what you got. Don't freak out over stupid issues such as teachers using Facebook, trust me, it's not that big a deal, and by the time your child is in high school I'm sure they will be able to handle it, even if you can't. Or a teacher moving a due date, oh my god, what is a helicopter parent to do?????
Posted by mom, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 4:27 pm
High School Parent,
Thanks for the reality check
I have no problems with AP's
I do have problem with FB because it's socially isolating and a productivity killer for SOME students, not yours maybe. I'll be a High School parent soon, and the FB HW issue concerns me. And teachers not using InClass is an issue if related to using FB instead.
the post was about what can we do? I'm not so sure I'm ok with just relaxing about FB.
Posted by Palo Alto High School Parent, a member of the Palo Alto High School community, on Nov 5, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Ok, let's assume your kid was in high school and wasn't allowed to use Facebook. Then all that kid needs to do is let the teacher know and ask them to use InClass instead. The teacher probably would. The kids in high school communicate with the teachers directly, and my experience is that the teachers are responsive. If THAT doesn't work, the kid, goes to the instructional supervisor, and explains the problem. And most issues are resolved in this way. Issues come up all the time, and the students resolve them. If the student doesn't speak up, then things don't change. Things don't change through blogs. Also, all high school students have advisory periods, where they work with a teacher advisor.
Posted by katie, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 5:40 pm
• I wonder if PAUSD has considered a complete paradigm shift on how it structures its schools and educates kids. Something's gotta give. When I moved into the district, I was a bit shocked at how traditional (and un-progressive) the schools are and that the high schools are not structured in small learning communities. YES, it can be done here and NO, it does not 'dumb down' the curriculum, the opposite, in fact.
A bit of background from some quick research:
'The idea of small, "human-scaled" schools dwells centrally in many educators' discussions about structures that support personalization and trust. Research and practice point to the size of a learning community as a core factor, demonstrating that small schools are more likely to create the right conditions for student connection, equity, and high achievement... In larger schools, too, educators identify ways to group students intimately to create connection. "We have students who would prefer to be anonymous," says Nathan Hale High School's Ninth Grade Academy Coordinator Tina Tudor. "They always relied on that to get through school. You can't be anonymous here. You can't fade into the crowd and not participate."
• Maybe PiE could revisit its Benchmark study from a few years ago to see how other comparable school systems/high schools are set up and what they do to build community for kids.
Posted by adifferentviewpoint, a resident of the Old Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 6:11 pm
I think our schools are doing an admirable job of educating the district's children. The teachers I have met have been caring and thoughtful of their students. I believe we may be missing the point here. More U.S. students are attending four year universities, yet the number of acceptances has not risen at the same rate as the number of applicants. I believe some of the discussion here is a result of the additional competition to get into four year schools at all levels. In order for the academic/athletic/community service pressure to be lessened, we could be sharing our concerns with universities. Our city would be a great case study for graduate students collecting data about the increase in competition and the direct results on the youth and their well-being.
Posted by beentheredonethat, a resident of another community, on Nov 5, 2009 at 6:14 pm
I think Can we Talk had the best of intentions when he/she began this stream. You have many wonderful ideas.
My children are already college grads so we are not personally affected by all of this but I do feel something for the kids who are going through schools these days. My kids had AP courses, Algebra Star Testing, SAT's PSAT's throughout their years at Carlmont and Sequoia, managed to pass, then were accepted to SDSU & SFSU, graduated and are now successful wonderful adults. And yes they had down time, tv, movies, hanging out with friends, sleepovers; some outside soccer and karate and some school dance and theatre. For us it was a win-win. Success can be had living a less stressful life if you give kids a chance to be kids along the way. I feel the teachers are stressed too, there's a lot of pressure on them to turn out successful students.
Posted by OhlonePar, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Honestly, I don't know that the school district is planning to do anything, but katie and I are on the same page here. Ideally, I'd like a third high school and smaller schools overall. That said, I think schools within schools would be a start. One counselor per 400 kids isn't going to cut it.
Kids should not be anonymous. I wish everybody had perfect parents, but they don't. It's a lot easier to spot issues if we make a point of making sure that every child on the campus gets to know an adult.
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 6:43 pm
I wonder if the Harry Potter/Hogwarts 4 houses within a school might be a good idea here. Many schools in England still run this concept. All students would be assigned a "house" and remain in that house for all four years of high school. The house would be awarded points on individual student achievements as well as interhouse sports and other fun (spirit week?) activities. Academic points could be earned, but also achievements in arts, journalism, debate, sports, community service, etc. Because the challenge would be to earn points for the house, then going overboard to earn points by overachieving college aware students or their parents would make little point. At the end of the year, a special award to the winning house and perhaps that house's banner displayed in the school gym, student center or quad, plus something like an icecream social for the winning house would be the only tangible reward, but the bragging rights and school bonding would make the system a way to destress and offer more lighthearted challenges throughout the year.
Posted by Palo Alto High School Parent, a member of the Palo Alto High School community, on Nov 5, 2009 at 7:01 pm
The thing is, I Think We Can Talk is clearly not a high school parent because there are JV versions of popular activites here in Palo Alto high schools, she just doesn't know about them. There are plenty of low key things to do here.
Posted by B. Li, a resident of the Barron Park neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 7:20 pm
How about let's tell our children that we love them. Maybe do more than tell them and write it on a little note that they can find when they least expect it. Maybe a text or on their Facebook wall. Better yet how about we sit down and have dinner with our kids, go grocery shopping with them, go for a hike or a long drive..talk to them. There seems to be much discussion about making changes in school, how about just spending time living, loving, listening and appreciating our kids!
Posted by Can We Talk?, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Yes, I am a Palo Alto high school parent.
Yes, there are "J.V." versions for sports, still super competitive, but very few low-key intramural versions for kids who'd enjoy being on a team. (Our middle schools, though, do a great job of that.) Other high school non-sport activities do not seem, in my experience, to offer an alternative to the "all-or-nothing" approach. There may be a few we haven't come across, and I hope I didn't sound "absolutist." But my own family has not found them. I think that one of the (many) reasons our extra-curriculars win so many national recognitions is that hour kids devote professional-level hours to them, on top of going to school.
I never intended to fault our schools or teachers. Most are dedicated and work hard, and, as in all walks of life, some are not all we might hope they would be. Most of my ideas had something to do with school because that's such a huge part of our kids' lives. But I encourage, of course, the entire community to look for solutions (e.g. less stuff on weekends)
I nodded reading some of the responses about the intensity of the college app. process. Yes, I agree totally, that is at the root of much of it. I just don't know how to begin to address the issue at the national, collegiate level. (I did have to laugh at one app I saw recently - it left twelve lines for students to list their "awards and honors." I'm well over 40 and I don't have anything close to 12 awards!!)
And B. Li.... yes, yes and yes!
But back to the list:
9. Re-evaluate how we do "Community Service." We all admire and want to encourage young people to serve. But, like everything else, "Community Service" has become both a competition and another "check mark" on the "resume." Kids carry forms around in their pockets, and adults who need volunteers recruit by promising "Community Service hours available." (I'm not criticizing - I've done it myself.) But maybe we could find a way to encourage service without counting and tracking the hours so closely.
Posted by Palo Alto High School Parent, a member of the Palo Alto High School community, on Nov 5, 2009 at 8:06 pm
The only community service required is 15 hours during the Living Skills class, anything over that is something that you can be cynical about, or let your child explore if that is something they WANT to do. It is not REQUIRED by anyone, other than in the Living Skills class. The transcript recognition is something the UCs will recognize if it is 100 hours, but is not REQUIRED. This is something that high school students do on a national level, not just locally.
Posted by parent, a resident of the Professorville neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Why blame homework, sports, facebook, teachers. AP classes, UC requirements? Maybe it's the water! Global warming? Whatever your favorite pet peeve is? Come on, highly educated community. We're all very worried, the last thing we need is muddled thinking. Please remember there is not one shred of evidence to indicate any of these factors are linked to the suicides.
Posted by OhlonePar, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 5, 2009 at 10:00 pm
parent,
If you've been reading these threads then you'd know that the kids have complained about several school and parent-related items. We can't do anything for the dead, so I'm paying attention to the living. I'm not seeing kids saying that they're too hot or that cholera's stressing them out. I am hearing about a highly competitive school environment, isolation and demanding parents.
Posted by Ohlone Admirer, a resident of Mountain View, on Nov 5, 2009 at 10:44 pm
This week in the flyer sent home by our public elementary school there was a notice directed to "Families of Gifted Children." Right there, I had my first big guffaw. "Well, they know their market. Let's see the pitch." The flyer was by some 'so called' scholar search organization; that is, organization that takes money from parents who believe their children are destined for the elite class, if they can just get into an Ivy League college. It had all the right ivy league buzz words. "Yes, your young child can be physically present on the campus of such and such school." Putting such notices in our school communications is akin to putting soda machines in high school cafeterias: Irresistible to a soft target. Phishing. The flyer really started me thinking about the significant industry around here that feeds off the status quo; that is, those that make money because the gun goes off in the race to college admissions beginning at 2 yrs. of age and increases in intensity every semester -- the tutors, the camps, the sports coaches, Stanford campus facilities. That infrastructure has grown considerably in the last decade and would have a lot to lose should logic prevail.
Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 1:06 am
What we need is qualified psychiatric screening for children at risk by MD who can diagnose, prescribe, treat and monitor severe depression.
Also Face Book and other social network sites/ blogs must be held more accountable for content which is posted and read by those under 18 yrs of age.
There is a very dark side to social networks sites/ blogs involving under 18s about which politicians, law enforcement and parents are in serious denial.
Posted by A Noun Ea Mus, a resident of the Professorville neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 5:14 am
I hesitate to post here as the partisan issues arise...but I have a few suggestions.....
1) the train crossing is a magnet for suicide. It needs to be de-magnetized. People say kids will just find another way, but suicide (Night Falls Fast description) seems to be a mix of depression or bi-polar, adolescence revving it up, some pre-planning but mostly an impulsive act. Stationing guards 24/7 at the tracks is the only way that comes to mind as regards de-magnetization. We can go on and on about other things, causes, influences...but we have a magnet problem. If we can't agree and act on that what hope is there for striving for deeper solutions?
2) the Middle School and High School free 3 day referrals are worse than nothing. Ditto with the on-sight student counselors (the college kids studying to be counselors). It gives the illusion that there is help when it's just a cheap way towards denial and substandard evaluation and action. I don't know how better qualified services could be provided, but if a parent and/or teacher has a worry or suspicion it shouldn't be side-lined because of professional ineptitude. I have bitter personal experience in this realm.
Posted by Anonna, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 9:35 am
I am reading all this and am TERRIFIED!! High school is a few years away for my children, but I really hope that the schools are reading these forums and listening to these families. I have a question: what is life like at the private high schools in the area? Menlo, Castilleja, St. Francis and others? I know they have smaller classes and ratios, but are their students stressed out and over-scheduled? Maybe we need to look at alternative education to find new solutions for improving the environment in our schools. Education should be invigorating and enjoyable. Students should never feel like slaves.
Posted by palo alto mom, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 11:06 am
I don't know about St. Francis, but both Menlo and Castilleja are VERY academic and VERY hard to get into (Menlo's big into sports too). A kid who will do well at either of those schools will do just fine at Paly or Gunn. Its the rest of the kids...
I totally agree that education should be invigorating and enjoyable, and it is until for many years. But in my experience, HS is not about education, its about getting the grades and building a resume for college. The kids who are in a class to learn are at a disadvantage. You can't make mistakes (for example, your math homework should be perfect so you get the points for it) with little room for error (like I didn't understand the math, neither do my parents, I can't afford a real tutor and my peer tutor just offers to do it for me...)
Some of the great teachers are caught in a dilemma - what do they teach? What the kids need to know for the tests (AP, SAT, ACT) or do they teach what the kids really need to know. And grades - do they grade the kids on their work, on a curve, etc. Do they take in to consideration that giving a kid a well deserved B may change their whole life because its the only B they have gotten in HS.
Then there is the tutor factor - if most of your class has a tutor, how do you teach? Do you teach to the kids who don't have one. Do you teach to the ones that do that have already reviewed the material?
As far as I know, there are no "kinder, gentler" private high school alternatives. (Although I've heard wonderful things about Summit and Everest Charters in the Sequoia District) Just really academic, totally college prep, or the schools that are thought of as being schools for "slackers".
Posted by Not a loser, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 11:12 am
I think that the problem is that Palo Alto high school kids (AND their parents) have developed a mindset that anything less than admission to Berkeley or Stanford or Harvard or MIT or you-name-the-elite-uiniversity means that the kid is a loser.
The problem is that not everyone can be in the top 5% of the class. By definition, 95% are not. Not everyone can be class president or valedictorian. Not everyone is going to be admitted to the handful of available spots at the elite universities.
Giving the child the expectation that they will obtain the top spot or gain entry to the elite institution "if only they work hard enough" sets them up to believe they are a failure if they do not achieve this.
It seems prudent to explain the odds to kids at the outset of high school. Students should not have the unrealistic expectation that gaining entry into the elite university is something that is entirely within the student's control. It is not.
A student can be extremely intelligent, extraordinarily talented, work very, very hard, have a perfect 4.0 GPA and still not obtain the goal. In fact, chances are very, very good that he or she WILL NOT be admitted to the elite university of his or her dreams.
This does not mean that this child is a loser. There are other excellent universities.
The child who has a less than pefect 4.0 GPA is not a deadbeat or ne-er-do-well. One's life is not ruined if one gets a B or lower.
It is up to the parent to instill a value for education in children. However, it is also the parent's responsibility to instill a realistic outlook regarding effort and achievement. The bottom 95% of the class is not doomed to a life of failure. One can have a very successful career and life without having had a perfect high school record and without attending the most elite university.
You can blame the school culture or peer pressure all you want for the competitive, divisive atmosphere that seems to exist at Palo Alto secondary schools.
However, a child's sense of well-being has its foundation in the home. Do your best to make your children understand that, yes, they should work hard in school, but that they should do so to better their own educations. Don't let your children have an unrealistic expectation that perfection leads to guaranteed success and that anything less than perfection equates to failure.
Posted by Mom, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 11:14 am
For what it's worth, St. Francis is less difficult than Monta Vista (Cupertino). Monta Vista is more difficult than Gunn. Mission San Jose (Fremont) is on par with Monta Vista. I heard Mitty (Catholic HS) is an option for less rigor (compared to the rest).
Posted by Thanks for the thread, a resident of the Greenmeadow neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 11:49 am
I think this is a great thread and really appreciate the constructive suggestions in it. I have two kids at Gunn.
First thing: There is a group organizing to watch the tracks. If you can join the watchers, please do. Here's the link to more information: Web Link
Second, if you're wondering about what it's like to be in the heads of these kids, here's a 40 second video anti-train-suicide message made by Gunn and Paly kids, very powerful and please watch to the end: Web Link
Third, as my senior is in five APs this year, I would totally welcome the limit on APs suggested. Colleges look at what APs the child has taken as a percentage of what's offered or available at their school. I'd much rather have had my child take fewer hard classes, but my child's peer group is all taking this load. Ultimately at this point in life, my child is largely in the driver's seat (I see my role as consultant and adviser and it is so exciting to watch the maturation process.) My child wants to go to a list of colleges that is exciting, no Ivies but very selective. My child felt that five APs was the minimum for a good record, and wanted to take six. Am I abdicating my parental responsibilities by allowing this? Maybe. Or maybe I am realistic about the realities of college admissions and peer influence. I don't think parents are the only ones at fault.
Another idea I'd like to see is LATER START TIMES at the high schools. Study after study has shown that the teen brain is wired to sleep, not learn, at 8:00 AM. In fact, brain research suggests that the whole way we structure schools is antithetical to learning (check out Brain Rules by John Medina for more information). More sleep leads to improved emotional health and better learning, both outcomes I think we would desire. The drive to start school later has been going on for years in this town. I wish we would embrace it.
Finally, I deplore that these threads always devolve into character assassination. I am an active volunteer and a very caring parent. Please don't flame me--no matter what you think I may have implied with this post, you do not know me or my circumstances. And that goes for everyone else who has posted, as well.
Posted by Can We Talk?, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Thanks, "Thanks." ;-)
Let's keep it going:
10. Consider more late start times, even if its only a couple days a week, or special "sleep in" days from time to time
11. Allow parents to authorize a certain number of excused "mental health" or "catch up" absences. Right now, if a parent is concerned about an overwhelmed child and wants to excuse them from an hour of P.E. or Voc Ed in order to catch up on an assignment or study for, say, Math or Chemistry or Physics, they are not allowed to do that. Such absences are considered cuts, even if the parent approves them. Obviously, parents learn this quickly and thus lie about the reasons for the absence. This, on so many levels, is ludicrous.
12. Examine ways to increase "drop-in" academic support centers on campus. To their credit, our high schools do try to offer these, but they are often overwhelmed, understaffed or dependent on volunteer upperclassmen who have lives of their own. A math after-school drop-in center at Paly is immensely useful (and well-used) and could be a model for other departments and schools where the need is just as great, or even greater.
Misha, perhaps you are right - I don't really know what to do next. Are you available in the mornings?
Also - I want to note that I never intended to equate any of of these "ideas" with preventing suicide. Rather, I think the tragedies have made many of us pause and reflect on how we can make our kids lives a little easier. It has always been hard to witness the stress some of them experience, and even harder, I think, these last several months. That's all.
Posted by Paly Alum, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 1:01 pm
I read these discussions and have my opinions but don't generally contribute. I am an active supporter of the community and help out at the schools and do what I can whenever it is possible.
All I can say is that as a Paly alum I was by no means perfect but I had good grades and made it through college and have many fond memories of Paly. I WAS proud that my own children would be going to Paly. My recent graduate did not take one AP course, scored poorly (1600s-according to standards set in Palo Alto) on SATs and graduated with a 3.6 GPA but is attending and enjoying college life at a UC and you know what my graduate says about Paly.... "I'm SO glad I'm not there anymore!" This saddens me.
When acquaintances I meet say how lucky I am to live in Palo Alto and they comment on how great the schools are, I can't honestly agree with them. I CAN'T honestly say it is the best. Although I don't plan to move, I can't say that it hasn't been a thought. I still have more children that will have to endure Paly and that, quite honestly, scares me. This also saddens me.
Encourage your children to do what they can. Explain to them the environment we live in. Help them through difficulties but most importantly, spend some time with them (they grow up very quickly)!
Posted by Palo Alto High School Parent, a member of the Palo Alto High School community, on Nov 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Late start times are a problem because as we interact with other schools for sports and other team tournaments. Kids end up missing too much 7th period to make it to games. If your kid has a track meet or something with teams from all over they aren't just going to hold up the tournament an hour until Palo Alto arrives.
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Thanks
Thank you for the link to the video. This should be shown to everyone you know to show just what it is like to stand at those gates every day going to and from school for so many of our teens.
Getting some ideas together with some signatures is a good start and then sending a copy to the school board. One person reading them at the open forum time at a board meeting is a good idea too and even though there is only 3 minutes available either reading the names of the signees or how many is good too, the full text should be handed to the minutes secretary with names of all the signees so that they can be minuted.
Posted by Erin, a resident of the Leland Manor/Garland Drive neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Paly Alum- I went to Gunn and was so happy to be out. I think most kids feel this way no matter where they are. I've never heard anyone say that high school is supposed to be the best time of your life. Being a teenager sucks, and being a teenager in this town is even harder. This town is a crazy bubble and I had to leave it to realize that I was an intelligent person because my curved grades sure didn't show it. But, you know what, there really isn't anywhere else I'd rathere raise my kids so I'm back.
There is just too much that is good about this town and the schools to counteract the bad. I just have to do my best to make sure my kids somehow know that there is a world outside of Palo Alto and it's competitive bubble without allowing that to be an excuse to slack off. It's a fine line but if they graduate with more self-esteem than I did, I've done my job.
Posted by wondering, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Thanks very much for these most recent posts.. excellent and constructive.
I especially like #11 - parent authorized absences.
This stops the need for parents to lie (what a poor example to set) in order to provide some mental health time for their children (which is a healthy example to set). It's consistent with most professional work places that offer "personal" days, which are quite distinct from vacation days, to be used at the employee's discretion. While it's important to make sure work gets completed in a timely fashion, it's quite reasonable to be flexible with deadlines.... just as it's reasonable in the real working world to adjust dates/deadlines as circumstances evolve.
Years ago, I attended one of those author/lectures at Gunn about the over-programmed child. I asked how to not fall into that trap.... typical scenario being.... my child wants to do activities A B & C... he sees all his friends doing A B & C... and he doesn't want to miss out or be left behind... and, afterall, he's only a kid, who knows where his passions lie, we should let him explore every opportunity he wants... this is Palo Alto where we breed the best and brightest future leaders of the world, etc.... and down the slippery-slope we go. I never got an answer. Which, I suppose, was the answer.
So now, I say "no" to a lot of things (without lying about it). And I tell my kids to put the blame on me. Surprisingly, they are usually quite relieved because I've lifted the burden from their shoulders and I'm the bad guy. They can still be cool with their friends and the teachers/coaches can get mad at me, the parent. We'll see how long this approach works.
Posted by Me Too, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 2:24 pm
It's interesting to see so many suggestions about what the SCHOOLS should so different and so few about what PARENTS might do differently. Hmmm....
I suggest spending more time with your kids. Without that, I think the rest of this is eyewash; with it, not much of it matters. To knock-off the bard, the fault is not in our schools, but in ourselves.
Suicide clusters happen all over the country/world, not just in high-pressure high school communities. I think it is difficult to assert, for instance, that an in-coming freshman and about-to-graduate senior stepped in front of trains because of the # of AP classes.
Focus on your kids; help them make good choices; give them support. That should be enough.
Posted by jb, a resident of the Leland Manor/Garland Drive neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 3:30 pm
No one has mentioned the program for students to take their Jr and Sr years at Foothill while receiving a Paly diploma. (Paly at College?) They must be up to date on their academic requirements. Does it still exist? We joined it about 9 years ago.
My son went for his Sr year and it was a godsend. He had classmates from his age to middle-aged. He was ecstatic when he received the highest A in his class in English 1A. He was not a competitor, quite the contrary, but when he saw he could earn more points than someone his parents' age, he began to get the idea he could do it. Plus, these people were all his friends. It was interesting to be in a study group with adults and college students. Their views and explanations came from experience he hadn't had and he soaked it up. Their attitude toward the work was much more wholesome too. There were fewer classmates, proportionately, who saw training the mind as preparation for war.
Back to the program. He received credit for Eng 1A at the state university. He may also have fulfilled a history requirement. But there didn't seem to be the same pressure of being in an AP class. And it felt so grown up! He took the bus, bought books in the bookstore for his electives. (I don't remember whether Paly picked up the tab for those.) There was a choice of PE classes, including a stretching class and one where a young woman was training the class for entering a race as the culminating activity.
Another thing I see sorely lacking from teens' lives these days is concentrated company with adults who are teaching them how to live. If you cook, sew, make furniture, garden (raise food), build with Habitat..., do anything at all with your hands, try to teach it to your teen.
I am old enough to remember that as soon as a child was old enough, strong enough, or tall enough to do something, a family member or neighbor was teaching you how to do it. So often these days parents are the purveyors of resources and support rather than elders passing on skills and culture. If you do this, it will teach you a lot about teaching too!
I feel for todays teens. My kids were in highschool in the late '90s and early 2000s, and it was rough. From what I see in the papers change has only accelerated, with less and less regard for what we are losing as we plough into the future richer, fitter and more fortified against misfortune than ever before!
Posted by OhlonePar, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 4:28 pm
jb,
Good points. After reading all these threads, I'm coming down on the side of limiting the no. of AP classes a student can take and putting that limit on the transcript. Five seemed like a good number to me. Colleges aren't really wild about APs anyway and there's some controversy at the college level in that universities don't see "AP" classes as truly equivalent to a college course.
For the kids who really do want more, classes at local JCs and colleges should be available to them.
Posted by anonymous, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 4:51 pm
to Anonna/Midtown: I highly recommend investigating private high schools. They have their own cultures and communities, and there are some wonderful ones here and out of area.
Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Many famous people who suffered from clinical depression and suicidal ideation such as William Styron, Dick Cavett, A J Alvarez and many,many others initially attributed their depression to sociological and existential factors.
Unfortunately, by their own testimony such theories were worthless and they ultimately found relief and hope through medical and psycho -pharmacological therapy.
Screening for severe depression is now an evidence based medical competence, and we now have evidence based medical treatments for depression that work and transform kids lives.
The drive for academic or athletic excellence does not cause suicide, it is, in fact, a treatable medical illness with a strong genetic component.
Posted by anonymous, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 8:11 pm
There are some great suggestions here...but how many are naive enough to believe that Paly or Gunn administrators will listen.
And also, any teenager who at some point believes that he/she wants to apply for a job that requires a background investigation (such as a cop) should be encouraged to stay the hell away from Facebook, My Space, etc. Those sites are the first place background investigators go and while a prospective employee may have a perfectly clean and legitimate Facebook page, investigators check out their "Friends" who may have an incriminating page or have an undesirable picture or quote about the prospective employee on their page. All this "stuff" reflects back on the person being investigated.
Posted by OhlonePar, a resident of the Duveneck/St. Francis neighborhood, on Nov 6, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Sharon,
You really are distorting things. Styron, like many would-be suicides, was an alcoholic. Alvarez is quite explicit about the various personal circumstances (parental behavior, marriage break-up) that led to his own suicide attempt.
You are grossly simplifying here and distorting what these men have actually written. Styron, for example, broke out of a suicidal state not because of drugs--though he was later treated--but because he heard a piece of Rachmaninoff that his mother had played.
Alvarez has a much more complex view of depression and suicide than you indicate.
You are putting forth your own particular agenda here--just say so, but don't make claims about people that don't hold up.
Posted by Observer, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 8, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Erin,
Start at the beginning and read down. I saw some positive discussion and suggestions until you jumped in. Do you realize how strongly opinionated you can be? Usually heavily colored by the lens of your own experience, through which you seem unable to see anyone else's.
I think you have a good heart in there, but it's sure hard to have a positive discussion when you jump in with such a negative and narrow attitude.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I've tried a less direct and more supportive approach in other discussions with you, and it hasn't helped.
Posted by PA Parent, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 8, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Our schools have been getting bigger and bigger in recent years, with all the increases in pressures and declines in support that go along with a bigger more impersonal school experiences.
Our construction money is being used to make them bigger still. Is that going to help this, or make it worse? (A rational look at the facts points to worse.) Who knows, maybe it is possible to make ultra-large schools personal and steeped in community, but even if it is possible, it's way harder.
Maybe this situation will let up a little because we're paying attention after a crisis. But if we don't change the underlying conditions, the same factors will come back when the crisis wanes.
I think the first poster's suggestions are sound and helpful. I think we should pay attention to building community to help all of our students (and ourselves). I think we should consider reopening the third high school and bringing down the populations of all of our schools. It will increase opportunities for our kids by a third, make it easier to foster more personal school environments and communities, and allow us to offer a difference academic experience for those who want it.
Our administrators would need support from the community to even consider this. It's something we should explore.
Posted by student, a member of the Gunn High School community, on Nov 9, 2009 at 12:50 am
this is a pretty awesome thread. One of the few that actually makes me feel better. Thanks.
I agree with smaller schools and more attention. When I'm sad, there's too many people and no one notices so I feel like no one cares which you will tell me is not true and its partly my fault for not taking advantage of the resources I have.
I also agree with less hw.its impossible to do lots of work when you're depressed, its also good prevention. But it also helps me study so maybe it should stay.
I need people. It seems that the more people there are around you, the more isolated you are.
Posted by Baldy in a Caddy, a resident of the Fairmeadow neighborhood, on Nov 9, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Gosh!! This was supposed to be ideas for our children of Palo Alto. You've turned it into an idea bashing session. lol.
My idea:
Create or acquire a building. Renovate it. Let children pick out what they want in the building, tailor it to what the kids want. A recording studio comes to mind. Game room with more than just a pool table and board games. A computer room. A Tutor room. A babysitting service. Jungle gym room. Ball pit. Puppeteering room. A stage and room for a good size audience.
Last and not least a good number of people representing this Community Center within the schools. Not just fliers but adults, teachers, and kids of all different ages, just talking about and inviting their friends to the Center. Make it Free to Palo Alto Students and residents. Only charge for things that are maintenance related like Broken game controllers, or anything that must be replaced within eash use or a few uses depending on the activity. Also include common areas where kids can just hang out. A huge lobby comes to mind.
From what I gather most Teen and middle school kids walk from school to the nearest coffee shop, or walgreens or fast food joint. Other places are so outdated and have lost the teens interest. Need something fresh and that is only about them and what they want. All this within reason and rules of proper conduct.
Thank you. and please stop bickering and add some ideas.
Less criticism and more positive flow from the brain please.
Posted by PA Parent, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 9, 2009 at 6:29 pm
student,
Thank you for your open, honest post. We parents need to hear it.
Baldy,
The new community center at Mitchell Park will be very teen-centric. Much of what you are suggesting will be there, and it will be right by the library.
This was also tried AT Gunn, but I don't know if they still have the game room anymore because of vandalism. As usual, a few people ruining something for everyone else.
Gunn High School has almost 2,000 students now, by the way, that needs to be a part of the calculation.
You've got some great ideas, I'd love to see you take it to the next level. For example, you've suggested a stage. Do you realize the new Mitchell Park community center will not have a stage? There will be a multipurpose room with a collapsible/portable stage in a closet, but it's not even close to the same thing. There was community feedback incorporated in the new Mitchell Park library design, but not for the new community center. Maybe you could get involved in that planning, and see if you can get a little petition going for a stage. I'll be the first to sign it! The school kids of all ages around here would benefit, especially the teens who have other dedicated space in the new community center.
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 9, 2009 at 7:35 pm
As for the present, the Drop in Mitchell Park is closed and since there is no starting date for the new community center, it is pretty disgraceful that the one teen center we had is now closed - with no knowledge of when something will reopen.
Posted by Paly Soph, a member of the Palo Alto High School community, on Nov 9, 2009 at 8:43 pm
I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned but it is really hard for students who push themselves to take the advanced chem (chem AC) and high math lanes when they don't get a weighted grade or any other college benefit besides being more likely to lower our GPA's. The math land already curves so that 88% is an A- but chem AC is the hardest class I've ever taken and I want to challenge myself but not at the expense of my GPA and dream colleges.
Posted by PA Parent, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 10, 2009 at 9:14 am
Poly Soph,
That is an excellent point.
High school is the time for kids to challenge themselves, learn the value of learning and of making mistakes. Once they are beyond high school, their grades in high school won't matter much.
Isn't there a way to restructure the grade system so that the value of learning can take a front seat?
I hear MIT accomplishes this somewhat by making freshman year pass/fail (I don't know if it's the whole year or just first semester). In later years, their whole grade structure is lower than many other colleges, so I've heard many top-notch grad schools will multiply their grades by a number higher than one (and some other schools with easy grade scales by a number lower than one) when doing their admissions. It doesn't sound like the same thing happens for PA high schools, so there still has to be some emphasis on grades.
I'm not sure letting kids take individual classes pass/fail is enough, because then other classes for grades take precedence.
What about figuring out which term is less critical for college admissions, but maybe a good time for kids to explore, like maybe first term sophomore year (after they've had some good advanced classes as a foundation but long before they are applying to college) -- and making that one term pass/fail? Or leaving the core subjects graded, but making anything else pass/fail for that one term, to allow the kids to really challenge themselves and learn the value of this at a critical time in their education?
Posted by Can We Talk?, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 10, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I agree with the above, and also want to thank the Gunn and Paly students for weighing in. At the end of the day, what matters is what the kids think. Adults oftentimes (and with the best intentions) suggest things that make sense to them, but don't seek out a teenager's perspective, too. For instance, upthread someone asked "what's the modern day equivalent of a malt shop?" (place to hang out and relax) and that's a really good question. I don't know, but teenagers would.
To Gunn student - you are so right about crowds, and that's something that adults deal with, too. The image of a fast-paced city is cliche, but largely true: busy people walking past other people, facing ahead, wrapped up in their own busy-ness, never noticing the people right next to them. Then we visit a small town and are struck by how many strangers say "hi, how are you doing?" How CAN we bring that small town feel to our growing campuses? (or at least avoid the bit city brusqueness?) Paly's "Mix It Up" day - created by student leaders - sounds like a great step.
In any event, I've printed out all the comments from this thread and want to comb through them and attempt to pull together a list of all the suggestions. It would be great to have students weigh in and let us know which ideas seem like they would be helpful, and which ones seem useless or off-base.
Posted by PA Parent, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 10, 2009 at 5:07 pm
"To Gunn student - you are so right about crowds, and that's something that adults deal with, too. The image of a fast-paced city is cliche, but largely true: busy people walking past other people, facing ahead, wrapped up in their own busy-ness, never noticing the people right next to them."
Can We Talk? -- Your instincts are reflected in educational research. There is concrete research about how the size of schools and the size of school administrations affects the social environment, attitudes among kids, teachers AND administrators, and behaviors such as bullying and violence. Our high schools have been getting bigger and bigger, and mostly we haven't been paying any attention to the consequences.
There is something being tried with some large schools -- they're called schools within schools. It might be worth exploring, though it's not something to embark on lightly. From what I have read, for schools within schools to work they must be implemented properly -- and proper implementation means you really are creating two separated schools, i.e., each school with its own separate school administrators, classrooms, etc. Such schools have to be totally autonomous organizations -- which might have contracts to share, say, the gym and the pool facilities during different hours, but mostly exist as completely separate entities. I've even seen a report that suggested that schools within schools need their own separate school entrances.
The underlying reason for it is to create more optimally sized schools to benefit the kids socially and academically. Ideally, we would be reopening Cubberley, but if that will just never happen, I think the district should think about schools within schools, maybe even selling off Cubberley to buy land around Gunn and Paly in order to better accomplish this.
If there ever was a time to think about doing any of the above, it would be now -- the construction at Gunn is still in planning, but I think the vote to proceed with construction is in December. A lot of important improvements are planned, but a lot of money is also being spent just to make a more massive infrastructure to enlarge the student body. Maybe this isn't in the best interests of our students.
Posted by Concerned Parent, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 12, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Today my sixteen year old daughter was approached by a male Hispanic in a "used red-orange" car at the intersection of Alma and El Verano. He asked her lewd questions and suggested she get into his car.
My daughter ran home and called the Palo Alto Police Dept., who swiftly came to the scene and helped her with a report which included a description of the perp and the full license plate number of the offender's vehicle.
Parents and students.............Please be aware of this creep!
Posted by Another parent, a resident of the South of Midtown neighborhood, on Nov 13, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Thank you for the heads up about the predator. As it happens, the drop is open. I don't know where this idea came from that it was closed but I was there last night and they assured me it is open.
Posted by Resident, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 13, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Another Parent.
I received information at back to school time informing us that it would be closed. I am pleased that it is open, but many of us had been lead to believe it was closed.
Posted by Can We Talk?, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood, on Nov 18, 2009 at 4:48 pm
This thread has gotten long, and a little bit hard to follow. So I've sorted through all the constructive ideas offered here, made a list, and posted it under a new thread: "Kids and Palo Alto: Some Ideas"
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