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Original post made
on May 18, 2012
So much for the Facebook house price boom. Pretty soon College Terrace is going to be a ghost town.
Good ole Meg. She sure knows how to create jobs. NOT.
It's Obama's fault.
- hey, had to be the first one to say it! Shall we start the clock ticking on GL?
At this rate, California's fiscal deficit will continue to grow. Playing the blame game will not solve our state's financial crises. Each of us needs to tighten our belts another notch and work together.
This compamy is in the toilet.
Meg and Carly are/were not qualified to be CEO of HP. Mark Hurd turned out to be a turd.
It is very sad, since so many of us spent our lives working for Bill and Dave. You have to accept change, but what happened once Lew Platt left resulted in a very different company, and one that largely has failed.
Break it up. There are some great businesses in the HP portfolio, but they are incoherent right now under the HP umbrella. Get rid of Meg, bring on Bain Capital (she worked for Bain Consulting) and let us now mourn the demise of a formerly great company that lost its way due to aswful leadership that succeeded visionaries.
Well my investment is half gone. California won't be getting any capital gains tax from me.
HP days are numbered. This is all on Carly and Meg and the fools who hired them. When they brought Meg on, which was an astonishingly bad move, smelling to high heaven of insiders greasing each other palms, it was time to start sitting shivah on this once great company. In China Carly and Meg would be facing the firing squad. It also proves that outsourcing is bad business, motivated by greed and not sound business. Crony capitalism/Bain capitalism is the enemy of the free market system.
I thought HP was the kind of company who cut 10% of its bottom performers every year.
Daniel, spot on!
Wait, I though Meg was a "Jobs Creator".
Anyway, this is 25-35K world wide, not just in the Bay Area. This won't crash real estate prices as someone wrote. That's a comical conclusion.
Aah the great cycle of tech life... what's hot, now not, next ..let them rot.
May we all learn to view one another with some compassion and act with charity. Sad to see the never ending HP death spiral after Carly and the rest.
As everyone is so busy sharing personal details online via FB and a host of other firms of similar ilk, other firms will come along to replace them. I listen with glee to the flood of younger people reinvent the technical wheel , as they have no sense of what has come before in the world, and the interaction that occurs during those struggles when they find out the idea was patented before they were
As i have explained to many a youngster, i may look old but the brain still works . so its time to start our own tech revolution ....again. This means you ex employees of DEC, Tandem, Compaq, HP, and the host of others people absorbed into HP in Silicon Valley and the rest of the world.
who will join me?
Just a couple of short years from "Talk To Meg" to "Meg the job slayer".
I am really glad she lost that election.
HP has 350,000 employees worldwide. I am amazed that in an era where we have gone through the longest and deepest recession since the Great Depression, where the world continues to reel from the effects of the worldwide recession, where ALL GDPs are down, where there is no end in sight and looming increased taxes here and abroad, that HP is ONLY laying off 10% of its total work force
I would have expected a larger number.
Survivor. Thanks for the information on Whitman's connection to Bain capital. It all kind of makes sense now, doesn't it? There are too many vultures and out-right incompetents getting away with robbing and dismantling our economy, and blaming it on the victims and others who had nothing whatsoever to do it. It truly is demoralizing.
@ Mike. That system only works when the 10% aren't in the upper management level. They always suck everyone else down with them.
Naturally, Meg Whitman didn't take the only step that could help HP:firing Meg Whitman.
@ Daniel. I agree wholeheartedly. These butchers and vultures cut their teeth in Maine and other heavily oriented manufacturing areas of the country, where much of the effect of their business model went largely unnoticed. That sector of the economy was dismissed as dinosaur land. The sad part is that economic theory included this job destruction component as part of the transformation to global markets. Of course as usual, it was new ground and no one really comprehended the magnitude of the effect on our economy, assuming that all the displaced workers would just retrain and blissfully shift to sectors selling and exporting to the rest of the world, migrating to other parts country where the economy was strong.These "Ripple effects" were dismissed as necessary negative externalities, with The Trade Adjustment Act(TAA)included in Department of Labor strategies to counter this expected side effect of global trade. The ripple effects are looking a lot like trickle down supply-side economics now.
No One anticipated the perfect storm these high-end salvage organizations would precipitate.
HP made wasteful investments in green energy, including buying more expensive 'renewable' electrcity. With business decison like this, it is no wonder that it is having problems.
To clarify - Meg was brought into the FTD and, as she admits, was quite unsuccessful turning it around. Later it was turned around and ended up being a pretty good investment, but Meg tried, failed, and left. The owners were Bain Capital (Mitt Romney still at the helm), which bought it in 1994, took it public at some point, and then got out when FTD was sold to another private equity group in 2004.
I'd say Meg's track records prior to Ebay was mixed - she was at P&G, Bain, Disney, Stride Rite, FTD, Hasbro, and then Ebay. She certainly wasn't a star in any of those positions and didn't stick for long (2-4 year stints), prior to Ebay. But who am I to judge - Jeremy Lin was cut twice and spending time in the D-league before his breakout this year.
Meg is good buddies from the 1980 and 1990s with various Bain & Co. (the consulting firm) people, including those who became the leaders of Bain Capital (the investment firm).
Corporations are not job creators. A consuming middle class is the only job creator. Without a consuming middle class there would be no viable corporations or small businesses. Henry Ford paid his workers handsomely so they could afford to buy his cars. Corporatists like Meg Whitman and their enabler, the GOP, are cutting the hand that feeds them by decimating the American middle class with their greedy, selfish and myopic conduct.
Daniel: And where do the middle class get the money to "consume"? From trees? 93% of all jobs since WW2 were from new businesses, ie "corporations". If there were no corporations, where would the jobs come from?
@ Ken. Interesting comment. I gather you are an insider and have access to the numbers of this energy switch resulting in this huge layoff? I say this because this is what you used to lead off your comment, rather than suggesting first that poor business decisions led to the current situation, with energy decisions being one example.
So I suspect that this was a Freudian slip and you have another agenda.
@Steve C. I thought it was clear that I used HP's wasteful spending on renewable energy as an example of business decisions that would lead to other wasteful decisions, in other areas of the business. Instead of making hard choices, HP decided to want to be seen as compassionate and green and pc. HP did not make hard business decisions, and it is now suffereing the consequences.
As a symbolic epiphany of a serious new outlook by HP, it should dump the green thing. Natural gas is so cheap and abundant that HP can get out of the mess, with a straight face. HP needs to be seen as lean and mean, going forward, focused on profits.
No connection to HP, never owned the stock -- can someone pls explain to me why Carly Fiorina and Mark Hurd walked away in splendor, with millions, and moved on with great satisfaction? I mean, isn't Hurd co-president up at Oracle?! No repercussions whatsoever.
I know enough to know HP was once a great tech corporation. How can these awful leaders such as the above move onwards and be rewarded as well as they were? Is it all about the boards of these corporations not doing their jobs correctly?!
@ no HP connection: You are correct, the BoD did an awful job in vetting Fiorina. Her personality and methods were not a good match for the HP culture. Many of her business ideas actually paid off for HP. But along the road were many burned out buildings and dead bodies.
Hurd screwed up that's for sure - that is all on him. I don't think he got as much as many presumed.
The hiring of the former SAP executive was a complete screw up.
It seems that they finally have the right person in Whitman.
Perspective, It's a case of what came first, the chicken or the egg. There would be no point in creating new businesses if there were no consumers to buy the products and services those businesses offer. In order to buy those products, the middle class needs to have purchasing power. Purchasing power comes from jobs. US corporations have been rewarded for outsourcing and eliminating jobs instead of getting punished. Layoffs and outsourcing remove that purchasing power. US corporations are now sitting on 2 trillion dollars, claiming they can't invest it in business expansion and hiring, due to weak demand from consumers. Guess who caused that weak demand? Carly, Meg and their ilk.
"It seems that they finally have the right person in Whitman"
This is hilarious. HP couldn't have found a more hubristic, incompetent person if they tried. This has got to be the most inane comment I ever read here.
"It's a case of what came first, the chicken or the egg. There would be no point in creating new businesses if there were no consumers to buy the products and services those businesses offer."
What a crazy, inane statement! It illustrates the nonsense of the left.
Was there a market for the automobile, before it was created? Was there a market for the personal computer, before it was created? Were buggy whips eliminated by government edict, or because of supply and demand?
This crazy statement, by "daniel" is absurd, and it illustrates how wrong the left is, in the economic sphere. Supply side will always win over the demand side. Make it and they will come, or not; demand the unimmaginable, and they will get a blank look in their face, because they don't know the possible.
[Portion removed due to disrespectful comment or offensive language] Is it possible to get a higher level of debate here?
Ken, the supply side theory is the most bogus, most defeated economic theory in history. It's proven false and nothing more than voodoo economics each time it was put to a test. We on the left are right, every time, and you on the right are wrong, every time. There are no corporations without a consuming middle class, and there was a consuming middle class before corporations. Don't listen to me, listen to billionaire venture capitalist Nick Hanaeur who says that corporations and small businesses can't exist without a consuming middle class and that corporations hire workers only as a last resort. As a matter of fact, we would be much better off without corporations, but with innovative small businesses democratically controlled by their employees, not buying political power and thereby warping and monopolizing the playing field. Crony/vulture capitalism has been a colossal failure and it's time to abolish and replace it with a true free market system.
The supply side is the history of economic advance for the masses. The demand side is an excuse to enslave the masses. Edison did not create the lightbulb due to cosnumer demand...there was demand, becasue candles were the norm. Once he created it, the deand ensued, and he created his corporation...to be overcome by alteranting (vs. dc) current (Tesla...Westinghouse).
We are very lucky to have corporations, because they provide so many benefits to all of us. They are continually under the pressures of the market, and that makes it even better for all of us.
Daniel, you are lefty ding-dong. Where did you learn your script? Nuts!!!
Daniel, put aside your hatred of corporations for a moment, and follow the dots on what you said. You said " US corporations have been rewarded for outsourcing and eliminating jobs instead of getting punished. Layoffs and outsourcing remove that purchasing power. US corporations are now sitting on 2 trillion dollars, claiming they can't invest it in business expansion and hiring, due to weak demand from consumers"
Now connect the dots
1) Why have corporations "been rewarded" for outsourcing? Could it be our punitive tax and regulation codes drive them toward more profit in other countries? Where does that punishment come from? Who promotes the punishment of success or makes any attempt at building a business almost insurmountable in the USA?
2) When the companies are driven out, who loses the jobs? What does that do to their purchasing power?
3) US corporations are not sitting on 2 trillion dollars ( assuming that number is true), because of "weak demand from customers". They are sitting on the money because of huge uncertainties in the future of our country. They are not stupid people running these companies, else they wouldn't have that huge amount of cash. They look at our federal debt, larger than our GDP, and know there is going to be huge inflation and strong pressure to raise taxes. Saving money to fight on both those fronts. They are waiting to see if Obamacare will go away or stay..saving money to deal with that if it stays. They are waiting to see how much more powerful the National Labor Relations board will become, saving money to fight them. They are waiting to see how many more walls the EPA will be allowed to throw at them, saving money to fight them.
The minds behind our corporations are not stupid. They know they have to look at least 5 years in the future, and what they are seeing isn't pretty, and they have to build up defenses.
Give them peace of mind, and they will start taking risks again. And the cycle will break. But giving them peace of mind means voting out of power for a great deal of time the mindset which seeks to "punish" productive individuals and companies ( see what you wrote) both in punishing taxation and in oppressive regulations.
Perspective is off the mark again - just google some of his other posts. They border on absurd, and worse.
"Could it be our punitive tax and regulation code" Our tax codes allow a bunch of Fortune 500 companies, including Exxon and GE, to not pay taxes.
Wow! That is SO punitive!
"US corporations are not sitting on 2 trillion dollars ( assuming that number is true)"
Duh. Ever try google? From Murdoch's NYPost, hardly a liberal paper: "US firms hoarding $2 trillion" A trillion is estimated to be just waiting for demand to recover from this Bush recession.
Business's talk about reduced taxes (even Exxon and GE) and reduced regulations, but they are far MORE HUNGRY for demand.
"The minds behind our corporations are not stupid." Yeah! Just ask Jamie Dimon and JP Morgan.
"punishing taxation" When have income taxes for millionaires ever beeen significantly lower than they are under Obama? When has Exxon ever paid lower taxes on today's level of income?
Perspective - quit while you're behind. Next thing, you'll be spouting about US service members again.
Bucky: I know this is fruitless, but I will try anyway.
Do you know that we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world?
Do you know that Bush inherited a recession but somehow managed the USA in way that we had the largest tax revenue in our history from rising wealth in our country by 2005? AFTER 9/11 and all its economic effects? Do you know Reagan inherited a recession as bad as this one, but somehow we turned around for the longest running high economy since the 60s? So why aren't we pulling out of this recession that Obama inherited, the longest running one since Depression?
Do you know that every group has its failures and that is what makes evolution work? ( in reference to your comment about JP Morgan). The failure of some does not negate the intelligence ( or luck) of the survivors.
Do you understand our tax code? That massive losses one year can be sent out to offset future tax payments? Why do you think that is?
I truly wish that every high school student was required to take an economics class.
Just heard from a HP exec that the 10% cut is not going to affect all departments of the company equally. Almost all the cuts will be American workers and the number of Americans losing their jobs will likely be more than 35,000. HP will make up for this by ramping up hiring in China and India.
Perspective: Congrats, you've hijacked the HP thread, with your fringe right conspiracies and false claims. Why not start a new thread for your rants? There, we could address your silly statements like this one:
Your response to Exxon, GE and other Fortune 500 companies not paying taxes is: "we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world"
That's funny. Try again. Here's your high school Econ assignment: "Between 2008 and 2010, a dozen major US corporationsincluding General Electric, ExxonMobil, and Verizonpaid a negative tax rate, despite collectively recording $171 billion in pretax US profits..." Discuss.
"Do you know that Bush inherited a recession" Yes. With GDP down about a point, vs a negative 8% when he left office. Bush also inherited an annual budget SURPLUS, two years running, from Clinton, along with 23 million new jobs. Back to the recession, look at annual GDP since the Depression and argue the severity of Bush's Great Recession (negative 8%), coupled with consecutive months of 700,000 jobs lost. Want links? Start with this GDP data: Web Link
Blaming Obama for this just cements your fringe credentials. I guarantee you that if Romney wins, the first thing he'll do is prime the pump with more stimulus. If he cuts from day one, he'll be a one-termer, also. He's already said that cuts slow growth. Hah, that makes him almost a virtual Keynesian.
One notes that neither you, nor Romney, reference the one valid qualification he has in running government - his failure as a 1 term governor of Massachusetts, home of Romneycare, before being told to go away.
CEO's make lousy politicians, Bush taught us that as the first "CEO President". Romney just wants to extend Bush policies, he's already hired a lot of the Bushies on to his team. We can't afford that.
Praise be that Californians rejected Meg. Too bad she's going to do her best to damage California's economy in other ways.
Move the company out of California - save a lot of frustration with doing business in the state.
"Move the company out of California - save a lot of frustration with doing business in the state."
Yup. Lots of tech talent in Omaha.
Don't even have to go that far - go to Nevada they will more than welcome them. They could use the boost in economy.
Yup. Imagine when things take off again, after a move to Reno, trying to ramp up with another 500 engineers and product managers....
Out from Elko, come the resumes, engineers from the mines.
There's a reason everyone is out here. Even Meg isn't that stupid.
Have you taken a trip lately? Get out and get some fresh air!
Nevada has a comparable community of tech and management talent from which to draw?
And the weather is so lovely, too.....
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