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High-speed-rail analysis sets stage for more lawsuits

Original post made on Apr 19, 2012

The state agency charged with building California's high-speed rail system approved on Thursday a long-debated environmental analysis for the San Francisco-to-Los Angeles line -- a voluminous document that the project's opponents immediately characterized as an invitation to more lawsuits.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Thursday, April 19, 2012, 4:34 PM

Comments (15)

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Posted by Paul
a resident of Professorville
on Apr 19, 2012 at 6:59 pm

The discredited High-Speed Rail Authority continues to field dead horse after dead horse. This time, it's their Recertified Environmental Impact Report, complete with spin.

It is no wonder their massively flawed proposals are drawing numerous lawsuits while turning off a general public who no longer wants any part of this turkey.

Californians have become unwilling passengers in a train wreck which, unfortunately, we and generations following us will be paying for through the nose for in perpetuity. This one project could be the tipping point that bankrupts California.

It is a sad indictment of our political system, and the ability of special interest groups to create marionette pols with big bucks, to see elected Democrats continue to back this loser.

My voting and contribution support will no longer go to any politician who supports HSR from here on out.


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Posted by Howard
a resident of Crescent Park
on Apr 19, 2012 at 7:20 pm

This nonsense demonstrates why it is essential for Jerry Brown to push through legislation exempting HSR from CEQA.


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Posted by Will
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Apr 19, 2012 at 8:15 pm

I agree, the CA HSR Authority is a bunch of nonsense! Not to mention, arrogant and incompetent. They will do anything for that photo-op at the hole in the ground in SF called the TransBay terminal, which I imagine will shortly be re-named the Senator Feinstein Pork Station by the bay.

Any credibility the HSR project ever had has long since vanished, all that's left are the political rats that can't abandon the sinking ship. Thanks to our local 'leaders' Simitian and Gordon who help HSR limp along, refusing to kill this disaster because "high speed rail done right" surely must be coming around the corner soon.

Like Paul, I will vote for whom ever appears on the ballot opposing Democrats at all levels of state and federal office. Obama is foisting this train wreck on CA, oblivious to the long term financial disaster that surely will follow. He's lost my vote too.


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Posted by Paul
a resident of Professorville
on Apr 20, 2012 at 2:14 am

Boys and their trains.

The discredited High-Speed Rail Authority has eight board members, seven old white guys and a token female. Two are card carrying construction trades union members from the Central Valley. Another is a Fresno contractor/real estate agent. No wonder the proposed 'tracks to nowhere' slice through Central Valley farm land, never to be connected to where the people are.

It was two soon-to-retire Bay Area pols, Quentin Kopp and Rod Diridon, who shepherded this HSR turkey through political back alleys for over a decade before finally slipping it onto the 2008 ballot as Proposition 1A, all the while laying down a barrage of cover stories loaded with what turned out to be the BIGGEST PACK OF LIES EVER.

When I say BIG, I'm calling a $65 billion-and-counting overrun on the original $35 billion HSR proposal BIG.

To fulfill the promises made to squeak Prop 1A through in 2008 would today cost north of $100 billion. What HSR has done is pure bait and switch.

In 2008, HSR promised to connect Sacramento, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego to win the vote. Now HSR has sliced Sacramento and San Diego from their map, and used local rail in the SF and LA areas.

HSR says $65 billion will do it, and calls this 'a $35 billion savings.' That's not savings, it's HSR project chopping.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.


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Posted by Way to go Paul
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 20, 2012 at 9:08 am

Well said Paul. To add insult to injury Kopp and Diridon then named public property after themselves (the San Jose train station and the 380 Freeway). Shame on them.


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Posted by george
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Apr 20, 2012 at 12:20 pm

I concur with Paul in everything he writes. Also note there is no public investment which means private industry doesn't see any profit if they put money into it. And the Prop A specifically anticipated some funding from private industry. Will Congress contribute our tax dollars to HSR? Looks iffy.

Any politician who now votes for HSR in any guise has lost my vote.


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Posted by John
a resident of Barron Park
on Apr 20, 2012 at 12:27 pm

If you build it they will come.


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Posted by Robert
a resident of Stanford
on Apr 20, 2012 at 1:10 pm

@Howard:

You wrote: "This nonsense demonstrates why it is essential for Jerry Brown to push through legislation exempting HSR from CEQA."

And WHY exactly should HSR be exempted from CEQA, Howard?

There is a reason why the National Environmental Protection Act was passed in 1970 and all you can do is to urge that I-need-a-legacy Jerry Brown use his political power and exempt HSR from its provisions.

I guess you don't give a hoot about the construction price tag, the magnitude of California debt, what more important state needs would be further shortchanged to sink $100 billion into this fiasco, whether this project would operate in the black, and its environmental impact.

Fortunately, according to the latest surveys, over 60% of the electorate want a revote on a project that is radically different than what they barely passed (by 52.7% to 47.3%) in November 2008 when the route along the Peninsula was deliberately kept beneath the radar.

This particular project deserves to be terminated.


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Posted by Robert
a resident of Stanford
on Apr 20, 2012 at 1:45 pm

@John:

Your mantra-like invocation of "If you build it they will come" is absurd. That prediction didn't apply to an earlier state-of-the-art transportation system like the Concorde SST, did it?

Whether 'they will come' would depend on many factors, including ticket cost, route, convenience, alternatives, comfort, aesthetics, options at either terminus, and various other factors, not just on whether 'you build it.'

And let's not forget two other intertwined questions: (i) even if 'they did come,' how many of the public would use the system how often? Would those levels be enough to keep the system's annual operating budget running in the black? (ii) what would be the financial consequences for the State of California of building it even if 'they did come'? Howard, would you personally be prepared to pay incremental state income tax for many years to cover system cost overruns, bond debt servicing, and annual operating deficits? I await your answer on that.

Thanks for migrating your tidy little mantra from the ideal world of cinematic baseball stadiums into the real world of the early 21st century mega-transport systems. It provides a real boost to rational decision-making.


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Posted by ODB
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Apr 20, 2012 at 3:15 pm

No state should be undertaking such a risky business venture in good economic times or bad. This project is so risky private investors are staying away in droves. Taxpayer money shouldn't be gambled with, and CA HSR is definitely a gamble. Union Pacific, the successor to Southern Pacific which used to operate railroads in California, won't go near this project. Why is the state of California contemplating a project private industry won't even touch? More to the point, why is the state of California getting into the railroad business? The railroads have traditionally been the domain of the private sector in this country, not the government. In addition, cities up and down the state which won't benefit in the least from HSR because they are located too far away should be thinking about lawsuits at the prospect of spending tens of billions on something which will never benefit those cities.


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Posted by Choice
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 20, 2012 at 9:00 pm

What about this idea?

Build all of it except the part that goes through the three cities that don't want it. Then have buses transport the people through to the other side.


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Posted by Jack O'Reilly
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Apr 21, 2012 at 1:07 pm

We currently live in France, when not in Palo Alto, and enjoy the benefits of the great TGV service.
There are two things that seem to have been overlooked in the discussions:
1. Even after the recent "reduction" in estimated costs, why is the proposed cost per mile twice that of the line from Marseille to Nice? This new TGV line will go through some of the most difficult terrain in France, have to deal with active earthquake faults and involve real estate costs not far off those in the Bay Area, and yet it is still 50% cheaper per mile (or kilometer) than the proposed California High Speed Rail.
2. One of the most important needs for successful high speed lines is large amounts of parking at stations. Even in France, a country with very widespread public transport, the preferred way to get to a TGV station is by car. Currently both our local TGV stations (Avignon and Aix-en-Provence) are having to increase their already very large parking areas to cope with demand. This seems to have been largely ignored in California's plans.

I would be very willing to discuss this further - jack@jackoreilly.com


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Posted by Greg
a resident of Southgate
on Apr 21, 2012 at 3:13 pm

Jack,

You failed to mention the enviromental benefit of TGV, which is based on electricity generated by nuclear power. France is the only country I can think of where HSR makes environmental sense, in terms of CO2 production (global warming).

The economic equation of TGV is very complex, as I am confident you know. Some lines are profitable, others not. Ownership of tracks is part of a separate government entity, and it is a profit center, to build more tracks around the country, thus is rents out track to the highest bidder...which makes many routes unprofitable, and subject to government subsidy or increased ticket prices.

The California HSR concept is a state subsidy case from the beginning. The electrical generation will not, mostly, come from nuclear power. It will mostly come from coal. There is no serious environmental case in favor of HSR in our state.


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Posted by anonymous
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Apr 21, 2012 at 7:56 pm

We've been through a lot of revelations about this highspeed rail thing.
I am underwhelmed by the actions of local politicians, who seem stuck between a rock and a hard place, considering Pres. Obama is supporting CA highspeed rail.
Why doesn't ANY investigative journalist get to the bottom of why a)local CA politicians & Gov Brown and b)Pres. Obama 3,000 miles away (and uninformed, perhaps, of the specifics?!) continue to insist this project is the right thing for CA? As far as I can see, China - and American unions - are the beneficiaries of the project and our billions of taxpayer money and it's crazy to proceed with this...


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Posted by keenplanner
a resident of Los Altos Hills
on Apr 24, 2012 at 8:41 pm

All this NIMBY-ism really makes Palo Alto look like a town of Luddite fools.
In every other industrialized country HSR is now regarded as "normal". The US is embarrassingly far behind in clean transportation, and CA is at least doing something about it.
The claim that HSR is expensive is shortsighted. Given the growth of the population of CA, and the fact that most airports and highways are nearly at capacity, contrasted with expanding these "dirty" transpo systems, HSR is a bargain.
The trains are fast and quiet, much more so than the cumbersome CalTrain rolling stock. When Caltrain is modernized and HSR is added, there will probably be less noise than Caltrain makes now. Add that to removing 30-40% of the flights which are Bay Area to LA Basin, you know, the ones circling over your back yard when you're trying to have a BBQ, the lack of noise will be deafening.
I hope Palo Alto wakes up soon, because in the planning community, PA is the poster child for suburban NIMBY-ism.


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