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Estrich on Israel

Original post made by Agree with Estrich, Leland Manor/Garland Drive, on Jun 3, 2010

Commentary by Susan Estrich on the latest chorus of condemnation of Israel. Honestly, I am shocked to find that I am agreeing more and more with Estrich over the last couple years. Either I have become a left wing nutcase, or she has become a right wing nutcase!! ( Just joking).

I suspect that, in fact, she is simply maturing, as I did, and finding out that the "left wing" of our country abandoned some years ago the principles and results that most good, old fashioned liberal folks like me actually support. She is coming out more and more on what is now considered the "right wing" side, in support of liberty, a constitutional republic, reason, defense...kinda scary!

Web Link

Comments (73)

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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 6:54 am



The situation is dire in part because Turkey is a member of NATO and claims that its sovereign territory had been attacked and its citizens slaughtered.
This could lead to Turkey invoking Article 5 of the NATO Charter.

The Article says that an attack on any member shall be considered to be an attack on all.

We invoked Article 5 after 911, this was the first time any member had done so-- the response was swift.

Turkey is a key ally of ours in military operations in Afghanistan.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 7:35 am

The situation is not dire at all. You have misinterpreted Article 5--Turkey was not attacked. There will be no response from NATO.
The US and Turkey's interests have started to diverge a number of years ago. Turkey supports Iran's nuclear ambitions. Our military bases in Turkey are not as strategic as they once where.
Let, Turkey huff and puff and bluster all it wants. Meanwhile Turkey is illegally occupying part of Cypress. Hypocrisy, anyone???
looks like you are jumping on the "let's lynch Israel before all the facts are in" bandwagon.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 12:08 pm



Interesting--

The IDF has withdrawn its claim that humanitarian activists had links to terrorists AQ.Web Link
It also turns out that the pictures allegedly showing weapons on-board the boats were, in fact, taken in 2003 and 2006 from the date stamps on the Flickr photos. Ooops!

Netanyahu is about to announce the lifting of the sea embargo on Gaza and the plan is to have international monitoring to prevent arms smuggling by sea.Web Link. Good plan

That all happened very, very fast --- whats next?


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 12:25 pm

"The IDF has withdrawn its claim that humanitarian activists had links to terrorists AQ.Web Link"
But they are still linked to Hamas which is a terrorist organization. end of story.

"It also turns out that the pictures allegedly showing weapons on-board the boats were, in fact, taken in 2003 and 2006 from the date stamps on the Flickr photos. Ooops!"
I can take a picture of you today and have my camera date stamp set to 2005. When was the picture taken? Sorry date stamp can be manipulated as needed.

"Netanyahu is about to announce the lifting of the sea embargo on Gaza and the plan is to have international monitoring to prevent arms smuggling by sea.Web Link. Good plan"
we will see what kind of monitoring occurs. why not quietly bring in supplies from the Egyptian side--well because then you cannot whip up an international frenzy. Also note that Egypt wants nothing to do with Hamas--why hasn't Sharon commented on that?

Here's Tony Blair's sister-in-law in a well-stocked Gaza supermarket
Web Link
I guess Hamas, and their Free Gaza Stooges and Sharon feel that weapons are "humanitarian" needs.

"That all happened very, very fast --- whats next?"
Next? The ball is in Hamas's court. If they recognize Israel, renounce terrorism and stop shelling Israel, then peace and prosperity will come their way. If not, they will continue to exist as outcast in the world supported by misguided individuals who are clueless as to the real situation


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Posted by Agree with Estrich AND Biden!!
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Jun 3, 2010 at 12:38 pm

Now I am REALLY confused...I agree with Biden??

Gotta admit, up is now down.

Web Link


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 1:24 pm

Well. it looks like the "aid" (meaning arms and supplies for terrorists) has turned around knowing that they would be caught by the Israeli army and their real goal would have been exposed for the world to see.
Web Link
BTW, this boat is aptly named the "RACHEL CORRIE"--after a notorious aider and abettor of palestinian terrorism (btw, you can also find film of her burning american flags during frenzied protests in Gaza)


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 3:28 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

It is time to move UN headquarters to the poorest member state.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 5:32 pm


Boltons suggestion was that we sublet most of the floors in the UN to other tenants, we do not care where the the UN is located but we do care about Americas interests.
NATO has been and is a reliable agents of American interests.

Turkey is a key member of NATO

In attacking a Turkish ship and executing Turkish citizens Israel has created big trouble for itself-- as it realizes today

In addition executed an American citizen on the boat, shot him 4 times in head and once in the chest-- he was 19 yrs old--- that means mega big trouble.

Together with faked photos of weapons, faked evidence of links to AQ, faked videos etc this has escalated to the point where Obama and General Petraeus will come down very hard indeed -- a we see today and that is only the start--Petraeus made it very clear some weeks ago what the consequences will be of such acts-- we are there now

Biden was put out there on Charlie Rose just to cool the mark


What are the lyrics to that tune by the Doors?---This Is The End----

Good for Obama and Petraeus, they are now executing plan B--
"A Bicycle Made for Two"-
that is a Multi-ethnic democratic state, like the new S Africa -- lets get it done

We learned from the British in the Indian Empire, a two state solution leads to a world of pain---

Plan B is a one state solution overseen by Petraeus and NATO-- that is the new reality.


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 6:34 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

Show me an Arab state that lives in harmony with Jewish residents.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 7:05 pm

America has a separation between Church and State.
We have Arabs, Jews, Christians, Hindus etc who live within the law or pay the price.

Palestine/ Israel will be a ONE nation state within 2 years, S Africa made the transition much faster.

General Petraeus made the plan clear a few weeks ago, it is a done deal.
The Israelis and Palestinians will have to work it out,as the Blacks and Whites in S Africa did in a few months with no slaughter despite a violent history--because we told them they had no other options that we would support.

The current situation in the Holy Land endangers the live of American troops.
It will be resolved by a one state democratic solution whether the ethic religious tribes like it or not, NATO will enforce it and defang the racists on both sides.

US interests are first, we have had enough of this 18 century colonial quagmire in the Holy Land .

The execution of a 19 yr American citizen with 4 shots to the head and one to the chest combined with the fake evidence by the IDF is the end.
Most Americans feelings changed when they saw the tee shirts the IDF was handing out last year, they had a picture of a pregnant Palestinian mother-- the caption was -- One Shot Two Kills-- that did it for us--

We know a different spirit in Israel-- it is their time now


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 8:07 pm

Correction

General Petraeus stated under oath in testimony that American Soldiers lives are in danger and are being lost, because of the current situation in the Holy Land.


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Posted by Anon
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Jun 3, 2010 at 9:33 pm

Obviously Israel botched this operation, but, the fact is, when Gaza's borders were open, rockets were dropping on Israel. It should be easy for Gaza to solve this problem -- stop attacking Israel. I think Israel would be wise to drop the "terrorist" war of words, though-- accusing Gaza's sympathizers of being "terrorists" does not add anything but confusion. Hamas considers itself and Israel to be in a state of war-- fine, let's call it war. And that implies Israel has the right to blockade and search for weapons. Why doesn't Hamas stop attacking Israel and negotiate a peace settlement-- a peace settlement which ends the Hamas war on Israel?


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 3, 2010 at 9:58 pm

The situation in the Holy Land is exactly the same as it was in S Africa

Both sides will have to live together as one nation, that is the command from the world.

Ignore that command, then both are pariahs-- they wilt and die

From the US best interest point of view the decision is already made-- all that is left is senseless bickering

Our US soldiers lives are in danger because of the current state in the Holy Land.
Enough is enough-- the execution of an American citizen, 4 bullets to the head one to the chest---We know how to deal with that-- Do they really want to experience what we do?

The one state solution is THE reality.

All the PR and executions will not change that-- they just make the reality clearer to all
As Obama says we now need a one state solution


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Posted by Agree with Estrich AND Biden!!
a resident of Meadow Park
on Jun 4, 2010 at 5:38 am

Sharon: No. Not until Muslims can accept religious freedom and tolerance, live and let live, in the middle east, will there be peace.

Somehow Israel and the USA( aka Satan) have done this. Eventually the rest of the Middle East will be able to do this, I hope. Europe and Great Britain used to do this..they slid into special treatment for one certain religion where rights of others were abridged, but it looks like they are beginning to recognize the error of this thinking.

As long as there are Imams and mullahs and "the street" calling for the death of "Satan" and "Jews" and "Israel"..there will not be peace, and the rest of us will have to continue to act defensively.

Estrich and Biden agree, for the first time ever, perhaps, with folks like me on this one.

"Peace Activists" who refuse to allow their ships to be inspected by either Egyptian OR Israeli inspectors ( never forget, Egypt is part of the blockade also, but somehow this escapes attention) are suspect. Either they were deliberately provoking, or they were, in fact, hiding weapons. The sponsor f this "Peace flotilla", HSS I think is its name, was condemned from French Courts to Europe to the USA as being a terrorist sponsor after their offices were found to have bomb making equipment and written terrorism plans in their "peace" offices.

Sorry, the truth does get out eventually. And it always serves reality.

Web Link

BTW, please note that a Nov 16, 2008 article by the Times Online, UK, says "Barack Obama is to pursue an ambitious peace plan in the Middle East involving the recognition of Israel by the Arab world...."

Web Link

It always comes back to that, doesn't it? Even Barack knew this was a fundamental aspect that civilized people had to back up.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 4, 2010 at 6:12 am

"In attacking a Turkish ship and executing Turkish citizens Israel has created big trouble for itself-- as it realizes today"
This is a falsehood.

"In addition executed an American citizen on the boat, shot him 4 times in head and once in the chest-- he was 19 yrs old--- that means mega big trouble."
This is another false hood. These people were not "executed"--they were aiding terrorists.
Note this article
Web Link
"The Turkish Islamic charity behind a flotilla of aid ships that was raided by Israeli forces on its way to Gaza had ties to terrorism networks, including a 1999 al-Qaida plot to bomb Los Angeles International Airport, France's former top anti-terrorism judge said Wednesday. "

"Together with faked photos of weapons, faked evidence of links to AQ, "
Nothing was faked. The evidence is out there.


"Good for Obama and Petraeus, they are now executing plan B--
"A Bicycle Made for Two"- "
One of Sharon's favorite tunes. This is a falsehood, as well. Petraeus has nothing to do with that portion of the Middle East. This issues that Sharon harps on has been exposed long ago as a fantasy.

"Palestine/ Israel will be a ONE nation state within 2 years, S Africa made the transition much faster.
General Petraeus made the plan clear a few weeks ago, it is a done deal."
This is another fantasy. Nothing factual in the above comment.

"The execution of a 19 yr American citizen with 4 shots to the head and one to the chest combined with the fake evidence by the IDF is the end."
The end for who? Nothing true in the above statement either.

"Most Americans feelings changed when they saw the tee shirts the IDF was handing out last year, they had a picture of a pregnant Palestinian mother-- the caption was -- One Shot Two Kills-- that did it for us--"
Who is us? Where did this fantasy come from, Sharon? Who handed out these T-shirts? Who were they handed to? Boy....

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Anon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Jun 4, 2010 at 11:12 am

The twilight zone style weirdness of the LEFT where it vehemently attacks anything that is remotely against human rights, and defends the Palestinians and Muslims whose societies they would not want to live in or tolerate themselves is grown to the point where I cannot begin to understand some on the LEFT.

I am a strong progressive, but anyone who constantly apologizes for or cottles these Palestinians terrorists has any number of logical and conceptual problems with reality in my opinion.

Like the Jewish settlements in supposedly Palestinian areas. Those of Palestinian descent living in Isreal live all over Israel and maintain rights and representation in Israel's government.

Apparently the state of Palestine things the LIBERAL LEFT is fine with OK-ing ethnic cleansing done by the Palestinians who will not allow Jews into the state or Palestine, but attacks Israel for apartheid when it provides the highest standard of living and justice for Palestinians within its border anywhere in the region ... including Palestine.

Then ... look at the many programs to promote cultural cooperation and understanding that are carried out in Israel. They routinely provide excellent medical care to Palestinians and gotten suicide bombed by former patients they have helped.

Show me one Palestinian state run program to unite Jews and Muslims?

You cannot, the Palestinians state as policy has the destruction of Israel as its main goal.

What is wrong with your people's brains?

I am a LIBERAL, PROGRESSIVE and not about to change my human values or political ideas, but anyone who says they are of the LEFT and supports the Palestinians and terrorism has to have a complete misunderstanding of history and this conflict - and I am ashamed of any American or Westerner who thinks this way.


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Posted by Anon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Jun 4, 2010 at 11:14 am

>> The situation in the Holy Land is exactly the same as it was in S Africa

EL WRONGO


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Posted by join the club
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Jun 4, 2010 at 12:02 pm

Anon: sounds like you are a liberal who is waking up to the fact that the new "liberal progressive" is not the liberal of the 60s and 70s..we've been coopted, which is why we are called "new-conservatives"..ie neo-cons.

I started waking up with the election of Bill Clinton and watching what he and the Dems were up to....then followed the ACLU and what it had become, NOW and what it had become in the OJ trial...the "Anita Hill" travesty..and studied the results of all our "great" liberal ideas that were going to fight poverty, racism, anti-semitism and poor education.

Unfortunately and sadly, our liberal policies have only made it all worse, and the only policies that have WORKED come from libertarian/conservative principles.

thus is born a neo-con.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 4, 2010 at 12:04 pm



Here is the link to IDF tee shirts glorifying the execution of pregnant Palestinian women One Shot Two Kills Web Link

It was widely reported in the Israeli press at the time.

Israel had a very close relationship with S Africa, sold arms and helped it develop its nuclear weapons.Web Link

The far right in Israel has always supported apartheid in S Africa and in the Holy Land, Lieberman is a prime example of this.

There are many decent, democratic politicians in Israeli and hopefully they will be in power soon.
The current gang never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity, and the flotilla slaughter was the last straw


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 4, 2010 at 12:50 pm

"Here is the link to IDF tee shirts glorifying the execution of pregnant Palestinian women One Shot Two Kills"

Sharon is playing fats and loose with the facts again:
Web Link
"A spokesman for the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) told Sky News Online, the t-shirts were printed on the private initiative of the soldiers and their designs "are not in accordance with IDF values and are simply tasteless. This type of humour is unacceptable and should be condemned"."

If, Sharon, you are going to cite a single out of the ordinary occurrence with Israel, why don't you mention the daily cacophany of hate that emanates toward Israel from Hamas/Gaza, Hezbollah and the al-qeida linked organizers of the flotilla, in order to be even-handed?

"Posted by Sharon, a resident of the Midtown neighborhood, 31 minutes ago

Here is the link to IDF tee shirts glorifying the execution of pregnant Palestinian women One Shot Two Kills Web Link

It was widely reported in the Israeli press at the time.

Israel had a very close relationship with S Africa, sold arms and helped it develop its nuclear weapons.Web Link

The far right in Israel has always supported apartheid in S Africa and in the Holy Land, Lieberman is a prime example of this.

There are many decent, democratic politicians in Israeli and hopefully they will be in power soon.


"There are many decent, democratic politicians in Israeli and hopefully they will be in power soon."
Yes and they are running the country now. But whomever gets to run the country is the choice of the people of Israel.

"The current gang never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity,"
Sorry Sharon, someone beat you to that quote--Yitzhak Shamir talking about the Palestinians and it is so true. Look up the facts. They are clear that the palestinians are not interested in peace.

"and the flotilla slaughter was the last straw"
You misspeak again--there was no slaughter. The flotilla was organized by a group associated with Al Qeida. Check out the anti-Israel rhetoric before the flotilla left Turkey. These ships have in the past carried weapons for the use by Hamas against Israel. Israel has the right to defend themselves. Too bad you miss the big picture and choose to align yourself with pro-Al Qeida groups.




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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 4, 2010 at 12:55 pm

Sorry this is what the above post should said:

"Here is the link to IDF tee shirts glorifying the execution of pregnant Palestinian women One Shot Two Kills"

Sharon is playing fast and loose with the facts again:

Web Link

"A spokesman for the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) told Sky News Online, the t-shirts were printed on the private initiative of the soldiers and their designs "are not in accordance with IDF values and are simply tasteless. This type of humour is unacceptable and should be condemned"."

These shirts were not sanctioned by the IDF. As tasteless as they are, they are still an example of free speech. If, Sharon, you are going to cite a single out of the ordinary occurrence with Israel, why don't you mention the daily cacophany of hate that emanates toward Israel from Hamas/Gaza, Hezbollah and the al-qeida linked organizers of the flotilla, in order to be even-handed?



"The current gang never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity,"

Sorry Sharon, someone beat you to that quote--Yitzhak Shamir talking about the Palestinians and it is so true. Look up the facts. They are clear that the palestinians are not interested in peace.

"and the flotilla slaughter was the last straw"

You misspeak again--there was no slaughter. The flotilla was organized by a group associated with Al Qeida. Check out the anti-Israel rhetoric before the flotilla left Turkey. These ships have in the past carried weapons for the use by Hamas against Israel. Israel has the right to defend themselves. Too bad you miss the big picture and choose to align yourself with pro-Al Qeida groups.


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Posted by Anon.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Jun 4, 2010 at 1:16 pm

Here is what happened on the ship, and after all, it was all on video:

As seen on a video documenting the takeover, the first four commandos to rappel onto the deck were attacked by activists with bars, axes and knives. The fourth commando, K., saw his team leader on the deck, with a Turkish activist holding the pistol he had grabbed from him and pointing it to his head. K. jumped from the rope and managed to shoot the activist holding the gun. This happened 20 seconds after the first soldier landed on the deck.

If you could blame a whole country for a few T-shirts in bad taste the US is the global-bad-taste-T-shirt-leader ... so what?

Why harp on the T-shirt issue .... there is simply no argument or anything to say about the many good supporting points or Israel's right to defend itself, and the Palestinians never-ending lies, hate and violence.

Who took their case to the world by murdering people in the Olympics? Has anything changed a bit from that? No, it has gotten worse thanks to the hateful people who refuse to condemn and act against such terrorist behavior.

I hope I speak for more than myself when I say no self-respecting Liberal, or human being with half a brain or heart should be supporting the Palestinians ... except for the tragedy of innocent people born into such a hellish society and being used by terrorist leaders who mock every form of decency.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 4, 2010 at 1:46 pm

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

Israeli commandos were ordered to board a civilian ship in international waters and the government that sent them claims that the resisting passengers attacked them without provocation.
This is like a carjacker complaining to the police that the driver bashed him with a crowbar that was under the seat.
Neither carjackers nor hijackers should expect their victims to acquiesce peacefully.

Israel wants to destroy Hamas because it is a terrorist organization.
And that makes sense until one realizes that the African National Congress, Sinn Fein, the Israeli Irgun, the Algerian FLN and a host of other resistance movements were called terrorist organizations before negotiations brought them to power.
Former Israeli Prime Ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were both unabashed terrorists prior to their entrance into respectable politics. And so what? If dealing with terrorists -- as Israel has repeatedly done with Hezbollah -- will help achieve a worthy goal, why not do it?
After all, if negotiations fail, one can always walk away.Web Link


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 4, 2010 at 2:04 pm

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]

Look at the video. Check out the pre-sailing events involving the "activists" sent by an Al-Qeida supportung group in Turkey. Th etruth is there for all to see.

"Israeli commandos were ordered to board a civilian ship in international waters and the government that sent them claims that the resisting passengers attacked them without provocation. "
Israel had the right to board the ship since it contained arms intended for Hamas, a known terrorist organization.

"This is like a carjacker complaining to the police that the driver bashed him with a crowbar that was under the seat. "
False comparison--kind of like comparing Israel with SOuth Africa.

"And that makes sense until one realizes that the African National Congress, Sinn Fein, the Israeli Irgun, the Algerian FLN and a host of other resistance movements were called terrorist organizations before negotiations brought them to power. "
ANd then these organizations (or some of them) renounced terror and made peace. Hamas is unwilling to renounce terror. try to understand the comparisons you are trying to make before you make them--you are just undermining your own position

"Former Israeli Prime Ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were both unabashed terrorists prior to their entrance into respectable politics. "
Yes, they changed and became respectable politicians and beloved leaders. remember that it was Begin that made peace with egypt. Doesn't look like anyone from the Hamas side is man enough to take that step.

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 4, 2010 at 8:05 pm



The Economist has an excellent analysis of the situation in the Holy Land

"Israel is caught in a vicious circle.
The more its hawks think the outside world will always hate it, the more it tends to shoot opponents first and ask questions later, and the more it finds that the world is indeed full of enemies.".....

" Most telling of all are the stirrings of disquiet in America, Israel's most steadfast ally.' Web Link


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Posted by Perspective
a resident of Meadow Park
on Jun 5, 2010 at 4:43 am

There is a reason I dropped from the Economist's subscriber rolls some years ago, and Sharon found out why.

The incredible tunnel vision/agenda of that "journal" became quite clear to me. They were more closeted in those days, but the extreme left position has now come out of the closet.

Thanks, Sharon, for helping to advertise that.

They should put Helen Thomas "White House Press Icon", on its editorial board ( perhaps she already is). ( LInk to her telling Jews to get the (*&^ out of "Palestine" and go back to Germany and Poland).

Web Link

Time to look around and see who you are standing with, fellow Americans.



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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 5, 2010 at 4:59 am

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

Re: South Africa
There was a Western style democracy in place at turnover.
The people were and are armed.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 5, 2010 at 1:12 pm


No one has ever accused The Economist of being " extreme left " before

In 2009, it reported an average circulation of just over 1.6 million copies per issue, about half of which are sold in North America.
It targets highly educated readers and has an audience containing many influential executives and policy-makers.

It is quite incisive on the issue at hand----

"Barack Obama is more conscious that the Palestinians' failure to get a state is helping to spread anti-American poison across the Muslim world, making it harder for him to deal with Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan.
His generals have strenuously made that point.
None other than the head of Israel's Mossad, its foreign intelligence service, declared this week that America has begun to see Israel more as a burden than an asset."Web Link


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Posted by Menachem
a resident of Stanford
on Jun 5, 2010 at 1:21 pm

It is because of Sharon and people like her, who have this" israel can do no right" mentality, that the Palestinians are in the situation they are in. If you support Islamic terrorism, then Israel is a burden.
Law experts have spoken-- Israel did no wrong stopping the terrorist sponsored flotilla


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Posted by Caroline Glick
a resident of another community
on Jun 5, 2010 at 3:04 pm

Israeli government propaganda office mocks the aid workers who killed by Israeli commandos. CNN report: Web Link


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 5, 2010 at 3:51 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

When you make an armed attack on armed people, you have no rights but Geneva convention which acknowledges self defense. The 9 died in battle.
Incidentally, Jewish Terrorists attacked military targets.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 5, 2010 at 7:02 pm


The tectonic shift in US public opinion towards Israel is not anti- Israel-- it is pro American interests.
Israeli government policy is now dramatically at odds with US foreign policy interests-- thus the divorce.

American soldiers lives are at stake, as US Generals have said many times, by the perception that we support Israels policies--- we do not and we are now making that crystal clear.

Also Turkey is an important ally and a NATO member, its economy is 13th in the world and is growing fast-- we have many common interests with Turkey.

Israel can do what it wants--but it is now on its own as the Economist clearly points out.

Many people are also surprised by Israels recent incompetence,
the lost war in Lebanon. The fiasco in Gaza. The stealing of passports from UK, Australia, NZ and Ireland. The fiasco in Dubai.
The execution of at least 8 Turkish peace activists and a 19 yr old American citizen this week. The insults to Obama, Biden and Clinton.Etc

The US and India are ending their alliance with the current Israeli government-- who are now trying to hook up with Russia-- good look with that.

In foreign policy their are no friends, only common interests

We wish Israel luck on its solitary journey moving forward.


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Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton
on Jun 5, 2010 at 7:07 pm

A two state solution is inevitable - unless both Israel and Palestine are wiped off the map in a nuclear exchange first. Israel should start negotiations for a two state solution without preconditions while they still have both some legitimacy and some external supporters.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 5, 2010 at 7:29 pm

@ Peter

We feel that the window for a two state solution in the Holy Land has now passed-- the reality will be a one state solution that will follow the path of S Africa in its own time and with pain for all involved.

We in the US did our best help for many, many years--
it is time to move on--
we have many more important challenges and opportunities in the World that we need to deal with.


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Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton
on Jun 5, 2010 at 8:20 pm

Having spent time in both South Africa and Israel, I believe that a one state solution for Israel and the Palestinians will inevitably result in the Zimbabwe outcome for both South Africa and Israel - i.e. the majority will expel or exterminate the minority.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 5, 2010 at 8:58 pm

@ peter

You may be right, but that is the Lieberman/ Bibi choice

It is not our problem any longer, we will cut the ties, cut the money and leave it up to the UN to deal with an anachronistic case of 18c colonialism facing chaos
S Africa sorted it out, maybe they will too

It is not our problem.
We have much more important things to worry about and to spend our money on.


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Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton
on Jun 5, 2010 at 9:14 pm

Sharon states:"S Africa sorted it out"

The only thing that South Africa has sorted out is who is in charge. The exodus of bright young whites and the explosive growth of private security firms all point to an all black South Africa, just like Zimbabwe, in the near future.

I do not believe that the Palestinians and the Israelis can peacefully coexist in a single state. The demographics overwhelmingly and increasingly favor the Palestinians as the clear majority. At that point the Israelis in the single state would, like the whites in Zimbabwe and South Africa, be expelled or exterminated. When that happens there will be a nuclear confrontation in the Middle East that will threaten not just the region but the world.

Therefore, I don't think that any responsible world leader can walk away from this problem; their only alternative is to force both sides to the negotiating table.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 5, 2010 at 9:52 pm

"Therefore, I don't think that any responsible world leader can walk away from this problem; their only alternative is to force both sides to the negotiating table"

Been there done that---- many times--no results

It is time to move on and focus upon Americas best interests moving forward.

We built the UN to deal with these sorts of local tribal, religious conflicts. It is their job.

NATO is about protecting existential threats to the USA, Turkey is a loyal member of NATO, Israel is not a member of NATO nor is Switzerland.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 6, 2010 at 12:35 pm

"The tectonic shift in US public opinion towards Israel is not anti- Israel-- it is pro American interests.
Israeli government policy is now dramatically at odds with US foreign policy interests-- thus the divorce."
There is no tectonic shift nor a divorce--the public does not have all the facts--once it becomes clear that this flotilla was sponsored by a pro-Al Qeida organization, Israel will be seen as just in their actions. most of the world has come around to that notion already. They have seen the video and have read the facts--they are no longer swayed by the lynch mob mentality that pervaded the day after the incident



"Many people are also surprised by Israels recent incompetence,
the lost war in Lebanon. The fiasco in Gaza. The stealing of passports from UK, Australia, NZ and Ireland. The fiasco in Dubai.
The execution of at least 8 Turkish peace activists and a 19 yr old American citizen this week. The insults to Obama, Biden and Clinton.Etc"
Interesting that some people support the actions of known terrorist organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah and the Turkish group behind the flotilla. There was no execution--the facts of what really went on and who sponsored this event are out there.

"We wish Israel luck on its solitary journey moving forward. "
Ha, ha ha. Very funny line.

"We feel that the window for a two state solution in the Holy Land has now passed-- the reality will be a one state solution that will follow the path of S Africa in its own time and with pain for all involved."
who is we? The ball is in the palestinian's court and has been for years--they respond with rockets and vile rhetoric. They are only interested in Israel's destruction--once they see the light and realize that there only chance for peace and a state is to recognize Israel, things will move on. Sorry that you do not see that Sharon and instead continue, as you have for years, to lay the blame at Israel's feet. Talk about one-sided!!!

"we have many more important challenges and opportunities in the World that we need to deal with."
Who is we? Are you speaking for Obama and the government?

"Been there done that---- many times--no results"
When have you "done that" Sharon? all is see in your words is a constant scapegoating of Israel. Why have you not called the palestinian's to task for refusing to recognize Israel? Why have you not condemned Hamas for continuing to call for Israel's destruction? Why have you not condemned Gaza, as you have Israel, for shooting 1000's of rockets into Israel. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
"It is time to move on and focus upon Americas best interests moving forward."
America's best interests are a stable Israel in the region. Or do you support the anti-women, anti-gay, anti-religious freedom that is pervasive in the muslim countries in the Middle east?

"Turkey is a loyal member of NATO"
Turkey is a loyal supporter of Iran, which runs against the US and Europe's best interests. The world has let Turkey huff and puff but they are not taken seriously by anyone.


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Posted by Perspective
a resident of Meadow Park
on Jun 6, 2010 at 4:03 pm

Thank you Real Sharon. It is nice to have your constant and unending logic and facts, along with your never ending patience, to counter the [portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff] rhetoric that spews from some.

Speaking of logic and patience, by the way..I keep wondering what happened to Gary? Does anyone know?

Haven't heard from him in a while...


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 6, 2010 at 7:02 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 6, 2010 at 7:27 pm

Walter_E_Wallis is a registered user.

What is a contract worth with a party who will not be bound by a contract?


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Posted by sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 6, 2010 at 7:58 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 7, 2010 at 8:28 pm


Finally from, Harvard, a sane, rational, humanitarian approach to end the blockade of Gaza------

"Using American power to end the blockade of Gaza could be a win-win-win for everyone.
The United States (and Obama himself) would demonstrate that we really did seek a "new beginning" in the Middle East, and correct the impression that the Cairo speech was just a lot of elegant hooey. Israel's security concerns would be addressed, it would look flexible and reasonable, and we would be providing Netanyahu with an easy way to extricate himself from a position that is increasingly untenable. (It's one thing for him to lift the blockade himself, but quite another to do it at Washington's behest).
And of course the long-suffering population of Gaza would be much better off, which should make us all feel better."Web Link

It is a Win Win and furthers Americas best interests in the region.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 8, 2010 at 6:14 am

Very simple answer, Sharon to your above post--the US considers Hamas a terrorist organization--if they escorted a flotilla into Gaza they would be supporting terror. End of story.
But why no mention of the fact that Egypt is also blockading Gaza?
There is no humanitarian need in Gaza--tons of food and supplies are allowed in. There are pictures of Tony Blair's sister standing by a well stocked Gaza supermarket. What Hamas cannot get is weapons to use against Israel. Do you expect Israel to allow those in? Too bad the misinformed people in the "free gaza" movement are clueless as to the real situation.
It would be refreshing for a change if the people that constantly bash Israel, would put some of the blame on Egypt, Hamas and the Palestinians--this one-sided rhetoric is counter productive


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 8, 2010 at 11:18 am


The Harvard Article is very well thought out and comprehensive Web Link

"Second, having the U.S. and NATO take charge of a relief operation would alleviate Israel's security concerns. The Israeli government claims the blockade is necessary to prevent weapons from being smuggled into Gaza.
That is surely a legitimate concern, but if the United States and its allies are bringing relief aid in, then we can determine what goes on the ships and we obviously won't bring in weaponry.

But wait a minute: wouldn't bringing relief aid to Gaza end up strengthening Hamas?
Not if we arrange for the relief aid to be distributed through the United Nations or other independent relief agencies. Some of it might end up in Hamas's hands indirectly but most of it won't, and reducing the level of deprivation and suffering would undercut the influence Hamas gains as a provider of social services.

It's true that a relief operation of this sort will probably require some U.S. officials to have some minimal dealings with Hamas, but this would actually be a good thing.
If the United States is really serious about a genuine two-state solution, it is going to have to bring Hamas into the political process sooner or later and this is a pretty low-key, non-committal way to start.
And while we're at it, we can tell them to get busy fixing that Charter of theirs and take a humanitarian gesture or two of their own, such as releasing captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit."

A joint program by the US, NATO and the UN will provide adult supervision and a win,win win solution to the matter.

Egypt yesterday permanently lifted the blockade on Gaza and today Tony Blair called for an independent international investigation of the attack on the flotilla

Events are developing very fast indeed.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 8, 2010 at 11:33 am

"If the United States is really serious about a genuine two-state solution, it is going to have to bring Hamas into the political process sooner or later and this is a pretty low-key, non-committal way to start. "

But, wait, Sharon now you are buying the two-state solution discussed in this article? A few days ago you wrote above"

"We learned from the British in the Indian Empire, a two state solution leads to a world of pain---

Plan B is a one state solution overseen by Petraeus and NATO-- that is the new reality."

"And while we're at it, we can tell them to get busy fixing that Charter of theirs and take a humanitarian gesture or two of their own, such as releasing captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.""

But, wait, Sharon--now you are agreeing that Hamas has not been good boys? In the past you have constantly lambasted Israel while not mentioning any potential Hamas wrong doing.

"Egypt yesterday permanently lifted the blockade on Gaza and today Tony Blair called for an independent international investigation of the attack on the flotilla "

They will keep the border open for now--whether it will be permanent has not been decided yet. But, wait, Sharon, it seems that you are agreeing now that Egypt was also blockading Gaza. Why no mention of that before. There is your solution, bring all the supplies through Egypt.

Tony Blair is who?

"Events are developing very fast indeed. "

No they are not.

[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 8, 2010 at 8:36 pm


There are 3 alternatives for the US now

1/ We can continue to ignore the actions of the extremist right wing Lieberman/ Bibi regime in Israel, but our Generals have told us that if we did this we would risk the lives of American troops and our diplomats tell us that this would severely compromise our foreign policy and commercial interests.

2/ We can impose a two state solution along the 1967 borders, along with the international community.
--Defang extremists on both sides and impose a nuclear free Mid East.
--Build upon the Harvard Professors analysis referenced above and --help Palestine develop its huge gas and oil reserves off shore-- it could be a new Dubai.
--Israel would become a knowledge capital and technology hub for the region.
This would be consistent with the US Generals and Diplomats recommendations.
3/ We could just walk away, and make it clear that we are leaving it up to the UN to deal with the situation, we would stop all US aid and detach Israel from all US Defense, IT and Diplomatic networks
This is the default position for our Generals and Diplomats.

Option #1 and #3 will mean that Israel will be an apartheid state.

The good news is that Hamas has stopped its horrendous campaign of killing innocent civilians--but it need to do more-- revise its charter for example and negotiate the release of prisoners.

The rocket from Gaza are promoted by a host of factions, they are home made amateur things and of the 1000s launched over the years the total fatalities have been less than those caused by traffic accidents and crime in one weekend in Israel.

The US needs to keep its best interests in mind, for the long term and with a global perspective that means option #2 or #3

The current crisis means that we have accelerated our decision/execution cycle on this matter-- the clock has run out.


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Posted by WilliamR
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Jun 8, 2010 at 11:21 pm

@ Sharon--

"We can impose a two-state solution..." How do you 'impose' anything on a sovereign nation? I probably agree with you in principle on this, but I have a problem carving up someone else's borders.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 9, 2010 at 6:44 am

Sorry, Sharon, but the facts are missing from your post

"1/ We can continue to ignore the actions of the extremist right wing Lieberman/ Bibi regime in Israel, but our Generals have told us that if we did this we would risk the lives of American troops and our diplomats tell us that this would severely compromise our foreign policy and commercial interests."

They have not. Petraeus, for example, later stated that he was not referring to Israel.

"2/ We can impose a two state solution along the 1967 borders, along with the international community."
As others have pointed out , how do you "impose" a settlement on a sovereign nation? Who will oversee it? How do you "impose" the recognition of Israel on a terrorist group that has sworn to destroy her.

"3/ We could just walk away, and make it clear that we are leaving it up to the UN to deal with the situation, we would stop all US aid and detach Israel from all US Defense, IT and Diplomatic networks
This is the default position for our Generals and Diplomats."

No, it is not the default position of anyone but Sharon.

"The good news is that Hamas has stopped its horrendous campaign of killing innocent civilians--but it need to do more-- revise its charter for example and negotiate the release of prisoners."
Has it really?

"The rocket from Gaza are promoted by a host of factions, they are home made amateur things and of the 1000s launched over the years the total fatalities have been less than those caused by traffic accidents and crime in one weekend in Israel."
I guess Sharon would want to see more Israeli dead before she consdiers the Hamas rockets an issue. what she is ignoring is that Israel withdrew from Gaza completely and were then bombarded by rockets for years. I wonder how Sharon would react if the Midtown area were bombarded by rockets that caused total fatalities that were less than those caused by traffic accidents and crime in one weekend in Israel. Anyway, were does she come up with these numbers anyway?

"The US needs to keep its best interests in mind, for the long term and with a global perspective that means option #2 or #3"
As I have said many many times, the US interests involve having a strong Israel in the region. As, Walter pointed out why would anyone sign a contract with someone that will renege on it immediately.

"The current crisis means that we have accelerated our decision/execution cycle on this matter-- the clock has run out. "
Who is we? The clock has not run out and their is no decision/execution cycle. SOrry, Sharon.


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Posted by Thanks Sharon
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Jun 9, 2010 at 9:01 am

To Real Sharon:

Where do you get your patience from?


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 9, 2010 at 9:28 am

Thanks Sharon--I wonder sometimes. But I feel her comments and factoids need to be addressed, since she presents them as "facts".


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 9, 2010 at 10:14 am

@ Posted by WilliamR, a resident of the Fairmeadow
-----We can impose a two-state solution..." How do you 'impose' anything on a sovereign nation? I probably agree with you in principle on this, but I have a problem carving up someone else's borders".-----

The UN has done this many times times, in the Balkans, Africa.

We did it all over Europe and Asia after WW2

The League of Nations did it all over Europe and the Mid East after WW1

The key issue for American citizens is US national self interests.

Lobbyists for Israel in the US now face legitimate questions about loyalty and some of them are now being required to register as agents of an alien nation.

If we do not impose a 1967 border solution then Israel will go down the S Africa apartheid path-- as it already is according President Carter and many others.
Israel will become a pariah state and demographics and World opinion will mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state within 25 yrs at most.
That will be a sad outcome-- but that is where they are headed- according to Ehud Olmert, Barak and many others.

Interesting coverage on PBS News Hour this week on how thing turned out for S Africa after the end of apartheid.

We can certainly us the $3 Billion handout we give Israel as leverage for compliance.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 9, 2010 at 12:03 pm

"The UN has done this many times times, in the Balkans, Africa."
If that is the case, then the UN did it in 1948 when it established Israel. The arabs did not accept the nation of Israel and here we are today--the settlements etc are a smoke screen for the desire to eradicate Israel and it's jewish residents from the Middle East

"xLobbyists for Israel in the US now face legitimate questions about loyalty and some of them are now being required to register as agents of an alien nations"
Where did this "fact" come from? Who is raising "legitimate questions" about loyalty? Who has been required to resister as an "agent of an alien nation".
When in doubt and want to discredit those that disagree with you, question their patriotism.

"Israel will become a pariah state and demographics and World opinion will mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state within 25 yrs at most."
Is that your dream, Sharon? To see the end of Israel as a Jewish state?
I find it intriguing that you do not consider a state that is run by known terrorists (Gaza) and publicly and continuously talks about the destruction of Israel as a goal as being a pariah state.
You have made the above statement many times--it is no truer now then it has been in the past.

"Interesting coverage on PBS News Hour this week on how thing turned out for S Africa after the end of apartheid."
The comparison of Israel with South Africa is a bogus comparison. It has been fashionable to bandy about the term apartheid when referring to Israel. Yet, people seem to forget how the jews from all the arab nations were thrown out (if they were not killed) and their property confiscated. Even today according to the Palestinians, jews are not welcome to live in the West Bank or Gaza.
To compare the blacks of SA with the Palestinians of Gaza is so ridiculous that I do not even need to write anything to dispute that claim.

"We can certainly us the $3 Billion handout we give Israel as leverage for compliance."
Go for it. The money given to Israel is not a "handout". No point in going this claim either.
Bottom line, once again we see one-sided bashing of Israel without any blame and/or responsibility ascribed to Hamas or the Palestinians.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 9, 2010 at 2:11 pm



Two former Prime Ministers of Israel, current Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, respectively from Labor and Kadima, have said that if a Palestinian state is not created Israel will face international condemnation similar to that which Apartheid South Africa suffered in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Olmert told Ha'aretz in 2007:
"If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished."

Earlier this year,
Barak told the Herzliya Conference, an Israeli strategic confab, that: "If, and as long as between the Jordan and the sea, there is only one political entity, named Israel, it will end up being either non-Jewish or non-democratic … If the Palestinians vote in elections, it is a binational state, and if they don't, it is an apartheid state."

So according to two Israeli PMs the choice and consequences are clear
and the analogy with S Africa re apartheid are valid.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 9, 2010 at 2:26 pm


Sharon, you clearly do not comprehend at all what Mr Olmert or Mr Barak were saying

"'If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished.'"

What he was saying that the jews will become a minority and they will be like the blacks were in SOuth Africa. remember how jews have been treated in other middle eastern countries.

"'If, and as long as between the Jordan and the sea, there is only one political entity, named Israel, it will end up being either non-Jewish or non-democratic ' If the Palestinians vote in elections, it is a binational state, and if they don't, it is an apartheid state.'"
Here Mr Barak was clearly stating that there should be a two-state solution--of course his comments about apartheid are his own opinion.
As you see Israel is very open to a two state solution. Of course his comments also mean that if there is one state the palestinians will grab power and the jews will be minority citizens. You and others tend to ignore the fact that Hamas clearly states that they want to destroy Israel and do not recognize Israel's right to exist. How do you expect Israel to reach an agreement with people like that? if one party is not willing to negotiate with the other, how do you expect the issue to be resolved
Why do you not blame Hamas for these problems? Why the one-sided bashing of Israel?

Once again, it is common these days to try to inject the "apartheid" issue into the discussion--once again I say it is an invalid comparison. Even if two former PMs of Israel discuss it, they are talking about in terms of the jews being like the black were in SOuth Africa and not the palestinians--you have clearly misread and misunderstood their entire words.

BTW, we do not even know if the quotes you posted are real, there are no links to show that they were actually said by the people mentioned.


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 9, 2010 at 8:36 pm



Today Obama made a strong statement that the situation in the Holy Land has to change fast, some of the background is on this thread Web Link

It was very interesting to see how Rice dealt with the Turkey and Brazil vote on Iran, in her interview on PBS News Hour.
She was very clear in stating the importance of US relationships with Turkey and Brazil moving forward and she explained their vote in a positive empathic way-- very interesting indeed.

Looks like Brazil and Turkey are back channels to bring Iran to its senses and to the table.

Things are changing fast


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 9, 2010 at 9:43 pm


clarification----

I am referring to Dr. Susan Elizabeth Rice an American foreign policy advisor and United States Ambassador to the United Nations

Check out her interview on today's PBS News Hour-- it is on the web.
She has been very low key these last months on the Mid East ,she was working with her Harvard colleague Samantha Power Web Link who a member of the NSC and Director for Multilateral Affairs


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 10, 2010 at 6:16 am

"Today Obama made a strong statement that the situation in the Holy Land has to change fast, some of the background is on this thread Web Link"
The above is not a link to anything that Obama said--it is a link to PA Weekly thread that Paul Losch started a while back. Irrelevant.

"It was very interesting to see how Rice dealt with the Turkey and Brazil vote on Iran, in her interview on PBS News Hour.
She was very clear in stating the importance of US relationships with Turkey and Brazil moving forward and she explained their vote in a positive empathic way-- very interesting indeed."
Sharon does not provide any links to what this Rice person stated. Her link about Ms Powers is a Wikipedia link.
In fact I cannot find any sources about how Rice reacted to Turkey supporting Iran--this followed recently by Turkey supporting an aid flotilla containing weapons that was orgainzed by an Al Qeida associated group doe snot bode well for Turkey.

What I did find about Rice and the UN vote:
Web Link
"These sanctions aim squarely at the nuclear ambitions of a government that has chosen a path that will lead to increasing isolation," U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice said after the vote. "These sanctions are as tough as they are smart and precise."
Does not sound to me that Sharon's analysis of Turkey is correct.

"Things are changing fast"
No they are not. The US may be giving money to Gaza and trying to lift the embargo. Egypt has temporarily done that (notice how no one in the world was bashing Egypt for the embargo). The ball is in Hamas' court again. If they import weapons and attack Israel again--then the ___ will hit the fan once more.
[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Perspective
a resident of Meadow Park
on Jun 10, 2010 at 6:39 am

Eventually, in some way, at some time, something is going to happen to educate/convince the majority of the rest of the Middle East to join Egypt in its civility toward Israel...whose visionary, Anwar Sadat, brought about this massive shift and was assassinated for his life saving efforts, may his soul rest in peace. He, and Egypt, give me hope for the Middle East.


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Posted by Perspective
a resident of Meadow Park
on Jun 12, 2010 at 2:11 pm

Might be a good place to offer this link to the Netherlands Chair of the Party of Freedom, his speech at the 4 Seasons in New York, given on Sept 28, 2008. It is the second speech down. I recommend we all read it. I have traveled to Europe, esp France, for the last 20 years, and it has changed dramatically. The cultural ramifications are immense. They have reached or are rapidly reaching a tipping point. I no longer proudly proclaim my French heritage, and no longer travel to France.

Read this.

Web Link


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 12, 2010 at 6:52 pm



An incisive NYT editorialWeb Link by TONY JUDT, he is the director of the Remarque Institute at New York University and the author, most recently, of "Ill Fares the Land."


"- criticism of Israel, increasingly from non-Israeli Jews, is not predominantly motivated by anti-Semitism.
The same is true of contemporary anti-Zionism: Zionism itself has moved a long way from the ideology of its "founding fathers" — today it presses territorial claims, religious exclusivity and political extremism.
One can acknowledge Israel's right to exist and still be an anti-Zionist (or "post-Zionist"). Indeed, given the emphasis in Zionism on the need for the Jews to establish a "normal state" for themselves, today's insistence on Israel's right to act in "abnormal" ways because it is a Jewish state suggests that Zionism has failed.

We should beware the excessive invocation of "anti-Semitism."
A younger generation in the United States, not to mention worldwide, is growing skeptical. "If criticism of the Israeli blockade of Gaza is potentially 'anti-Semitic,' why take seriously other instances of the prejudice?" they ask, and "What if the Holocaust has become just another excuse for Israeli bad behavior?"
The risks that Jews run by encouraging this conflation should not be dismissed.-----

Regarding the vital US interests in building its relationship with Turkey---

"Without Turkey, the United States will achieve few of its regional objectives — whether in Iran, Afghanistan or the Arab world. The time has come to cut through the clichés surrounding it, treat Israel like a "normal" state and sever the umbilical cord.

TONY JUDT is a leading US/UK historian and academic, he has a great deal of credibility and a long history of telling truth to power.
Many of his talks are on U tube.

Lobbyists for the UK, France, China etc have to register as agents of Alien Nations, this is fair-- so that we know whose interests the are representing -- the same rules should apply to AIPAC and other Israeli lobby groups. There is nothing wrong with lobbying as long there is honesty and transparency as to which national interests the lobbyists represent.


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Posted by Biased commentary
a resident of Stanford
on Jun 13, 2010 at 8:26 am

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Perspective
a resident of Meadow Park
on Jun 13, 2010 at 11:07 am

Judt is well known in circles that care, such as the Anti-Defamation league, Web Link , as one who is basically a believer in "conspiratorial ideas about pro-Israel groups and "Jewish control" of U.S. foreign policy." He is a well-known non-stop critic of all things Israel, without having ever, once, examined the role of being under constant attack with a goal of annhilation, on Israel's responses.

For example, in the link provided by Sharon, again Ludt, like all others who not only criticize, but CONDEMN, Israel's sovereign right to defend itself, fails to mention that EGYPT is part of the blockade into Gaza, with a similar interest in preventing the importation of arms/terrorists into the region, and also offers the ability to pass through the blockade with the only caveat of being allowed to inspect incoming flotillas for contraband.

The link by Sharon, above, is highly biased, and given it is, after all, an opinion piece, this is appropriate.

But, read it with a jaundiced eye, noting the lack of supporting data which would only confuse the thesis that tiny little Israel is always at fault against the overwhelming numbers of surrounding countries and peoples who have vowed the annhilation of Israel and all Jews on Arab land.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 13, 2010 at 1:07 pm

Please read Joel Brinkley's op-ed:

Web Link

Please, Sharon address a few issues raised in this op-ed:
"The week before the aid-flotilla incident, international discussion centered on North Korea and its attack on a South Korean naval vessel. A torpedo sank the ship, killing 46 sailors. The U.N. Security Council was to begin discussion of possible action against North Korea. But then a few days ago, council members made it clear they were going to drop the North Korea matter and take up a resolution condemning Israel first."

Any comment on this?

"At the same time, all of the blame for the sad state of affairs in Gaza falls on Israel, even though Egypt usually keeps its gates to Gaza tightly locked, too - Egypt, which styles itself as the Palestinians' greatest friend and benefactor."

What about the fact the Egypt was also blockading Gaza?

" "From our ideological point of view, it is not allowed to recognize that Israel controls one square meter of historic Palestine," Mahmoud al-Zahar, a senior Hamas leader, told me.
Without even a hint of irony or jest, Ismail Abu Shanab, suggested: "There are a lot of open areas in the United States that could absorb the Jews."

Don't you consider Hamas's continued call for Israel's destruction an issue?
[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]



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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 13, 2010 at 6:37 pm

Hamas is not a threat to the USA.

Hezbollah is not a threat to the USA.

Israel tries to conflate its colonial land grab with US interests but we do not buy that any more.

The reality is that in foreign policy you have no friend-- you have interests.

The reality is that Israel has 200 nuclear weapons and, at our great expense, a dominating military force. Israel faces no existential threat. We may have created Frankenstein nightmare in arming Israel, but we have the back door systems if we need to use them.

The US best interests are in good relations with Turkey and the moderate Muslim world, making the Mid East nuclear free zone and getting Iran to the table with the help of Brazil and Turkey -- that is in part why they voted against sanctions on Iran--to be a back channel for negotiations.
Turkey is our ally in the war in Afghanistan, the emerging government in Iran will help us stabilize the region and exit Iraq and Afghanistan.

We do not know why Israel has now alienated most of it former allies in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas and the rest of the world-- but it has -- probably for internal political dynamics- whatever, and is has chosen the old apartheid path like S Africa did 60 yrs ago.
The US will not support that.

In the late 19th and early 20th century many movements and nations pursued a "Blood, Race and Soil" philosophy, Zionism was one of those.
The functional world has evolved into a globalized, multicultural, free trade vision.

We in the US support that vision with the important addition of human rights and dignity.

Obama and General Petraeus sent the same message very clearly- the current Israeli actions create an unsustainable situations that threatens US soldiers lives.

We say it is unsustainable and the world agrees.


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Posted by Question for Mr. Sharon
a resident of Charleston Meadows
on Jun 13, 2010 at 10:26 pm

When is Mr. Sharon going to address the out of control birth rate among the Gaza inhabitants which makes their plight worse every day. They have multiplied many times over since they settled there but no one seems to want to mention the problems they increase by their own doing. They keep increasing the number of violent kids and teenagers.
Oh I forgot, god told me to do it.


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Posted by The Real Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 14, 2010 at 6:04 am

Once again, Sharon i sposting non-factual items:

"Hamas is not a threat to the USA.
Hezbollah is not a threat to the USA."
I am shocked that Sharon does not consider terrorist organizations as not being a threat to the uS. What about Al Qeida?

"Israel tries to conflate its colonial land grab with US interests but we do not buy that any more."
How is we? There is no "colonial land grab". Sharon conveniently ignores the history of the middle east and the aim of the arab countries since 1948.

"The reality is that in foreign policy you have no friend-- you have interests."
Not sure whose reality that is, but SHaron has repeated this factoid over and over.

"The reality is that Israel has 200 nuclear weapons and, at our great expense, a dominating military force. Israel faces no existential threat. We may have created Frankenstein nightmare in arming Israel, but we have the back door systems if we need to use them."
I cannot believe that Sharon actually says that "Israel faces no existential threat". That statement speaks for itself.

"The US best interests are in good relations with Turkey and the moderate Muslim world, making the Mid East nuclear free zone and getting Iran to the table with the help of Brazil and Turkey -- that is in part why they voted against sanctions on Iran--to be a back channel for negotiations."
Turkey is upset that it was rejected for the EU. Since then Turkey has allied itself with Iran and Syria. It sponsors terrorists, i.e those behind the recent flotilla. In addition Turkey has oppressed the Kurds and is illegally occupying part of Cyprus--a bit hypocritical of them to attack Israel. Also, Russia is no longer a threat, so Turkey's strategic importance has diminished. Turkey is blustering and puffing out their chest these days--let them they have alienated europe and the US>


"We do not know why Israel has now alienated most of it former allies in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas and the rest of the world-- but it has -- probably for internal political dynamics- whatever, and is has chosen the old apartheid path like S Africa did 60 yrs ago.'
Who is we? There we go again--bandying about the term apartheid--no comparison between South Africa and ISrael. It makes for a good sound bite, but it does not make it true.

"The US will not support that."
ARe you determining foreign policynow, Sharon?

"In the late 19th and early 20th century many movements and nations pursued a "Blood, Race and Soil" philosophy, Zionism was one of those."
This is a total falsehood. As you can see from this link (Web Link) this is neo-nazi talk. I am shocked that Sharon is comparing Israel/Zionism to the nazis.

"We in the US support that vision with the important addition of human rights and dignity."
Who is we? Then it is too bad that you have not spoken out at all about the human rights violations occurring not only in Gaza and the West bank but in all the arab countries in the mideast. In which country can people worship any religion, in which country are gays accepted, in which country do women have equal rights--the answer--Israel. So please do not talk about human rights when you are silent about what goes in most countries in the Middle East.

"Obama and General Petraeus sent the same message very clearly- the current Israeli actions create an unsustainable situations that threatens US soldiers lives."
this is another factoid that Sharon constantly brings up. Obama and Petraeus never said anything to that effect.

"We say it is unsustainable and the world agrees."
Another factoid not proven by any facts whatsoever.

I also have to note that the editor's are very zealous in deleting any criticism of Sharon's postings, even when they do not contain any personal attacks and just question her even-handedness and perceived bias.
[Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Perspective
a resident of Meadow Park
on Jun 14, 2010 at 6:30 am

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 14, 2010 at 6:00 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by Sharon
a resident of Midtown
on Jun 14, 2010 at 9:18 pm

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


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Posted by What's going on here?
a resident of College Terrace
on Jun 14, 2010 at 10:11 pm

Sharon -

Why are you so anti-Israel?

They provide more freedom to their people than any of their neighbors, have an open and stable economy and government, and their per capita technology contribution to the world is quite high.


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Posted by Perspective
a resident of Meadow Park
on Jun 15, 2010 at 5:57 am

[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]


Sorry, but further commenting on this topic has been closed.

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