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Western Antarctic ice chunk collapses

Original post made by FiddlingWhileRomeBurns, another community, on Mar 25, 2008

Story:
Web Link

Comments (19)

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Posted by julie
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 25, 2008 at 2:51 pm



While the Arctic sea ice is changing fast, the same is not true in Antarctica.

The amount of ice surrounding the continent is little changed over recent decades, although some ice loss has been occurring around the continent's peninsula and on some glaciers.

Antarctica is significantly less tied to the world's weather patterns and is considered to be less subject to the effects of global warming so far.



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Posted by joe
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 25, 2008 at 3:34 pm



When they were first deployed in 2003, the Argos were hailed for their ability to collect information on ocean conditions more precisely, at more places and greater depths and in more conditions than ever before.

No longer would scientists have to rely on measurements mostly at the surface from older scientific buoys or inconsistent shipboard monitors.

So why are some scientists now beginning to question the buoys' findings?

Because in five years, the little blighters have failed to detect any global warming.

They are not reinforcing the scientific orthodoxy of the day, namely that man is causing the planet to warm dangerously.

They are not proving the predetermined conclusions of their human masters.

Therefore they, and not their masters' hypotheses, must be wrong.

In fact, "there has been a very slight cooling," according to a U.S. National Public Radio (NPR) interview with Josh Willis at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a scientist who keeps close watch on the Argo findings.

Web Link


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Posted by Mike
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 25, 2008 at 4:43 pm

Those scientists could make a lot of money from Exxon Mobil and the rest if they gave up that global warming talk and admitted the world is doing just fine. Somebody is paying them alot more to cheerlead for global warming. That means somebody is outbidding Exxon Mobil, which moves around more money than a lot of whole countries, even more than Bill Gates and Warren Buffet combined. Who is behind all this?


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Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 25, 2008 at 5:32 pm

It's time to live it up (or move) before it ends, says British scientist James Lovelock, who was hired by oil companies to tell them how much oil was left in the world and hired by NASA to determine whether there was life on Mars. He says it's too late for the world to do anything about global warming.

See these articles for more info: Web Link, Web Link


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Posted by a
a resident of Adobe-Meadows
on Mar 25, 2008 at 5:38 pm

Oh, here's the article I was looking for on Lovelock. Web Link.


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 26, 2008 at 3:54 am

Corporations have no right to advocate self interest? Grant suckers like getting paid, too. That is why you should listen to engineers, since engineering is the profession where credibility is validated in the real world. Imagine an engineer, like Mulholland, continuing to practice after a failure of the magnitude of Ehrlich or et al and Sagan.


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Posted by Mike
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 26, 2008 at 6:20 am

Walter, corpoerations are entitled to advocate all the self interest they can buy. Bomebody is buying more self interest than they are in this global warming thing, and I want to know who.

Was it engineers that designed the undersize gusset plates on that brigde in Minneapolis that fell down last year?


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Posted by Walter_E_Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 26, 2008 at 8:58 am

Yes, engineers did under design the gussets. Engineers are indeed fallible. Perhaps scientists need the scientist equivalent of Murphy's laws that keep us engineers humble. And, as the Mulholland reference demonstrated, engineers pay for their mistakes, unlike scientists.


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Posted by Mike
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 26, 2008 at 9:47 am

How much did those engineers pay for goofing that bridge? If engineers make mistakes like scientists, why should we listen to them either? What difference does it make if they have to "pay"?

Who is paying the wages for all those climate scientists who aren't being paid by Exxon Mobil and their kind? Should we listen to the scientists who are being paid more or to the scientists being paid less? Does it make a difference whose paying them? I think it might.




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Posted by Paly77
a resident of another community
on Mar 26, 2008 at 10:10 am

Okay, everyone has a valid point.
Maybe we should feel somewhat fortunate that there are groups of people who are willing to cry "WOLF"!
It could be time to give up the tank size SUV's, and presidential size homes?!?!?
"What say you Palo Alto"?


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Posted by StillFiddling
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Mar 26, 2008 at 10:30 am

Just what I expected from the "deniers":
The "Don't believe what you see, believe what I say" argument.

No recession here, Iraq is going great, global warming is a myth, etc. - and anyone who dares even question these "facts" are "un-American".

Is this a great country or what?


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Posted by Walter E. Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 27, 2008 at 3:41 am

"How much did those engineers pay for goofing that bridge?"
Engineers in private practice carry E&O insurance, and any significant claim can make them uninsurable. Those engineers usually leave private practice and go to work for the government. I cite examples of venal scientists, uninjured by their errors.


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Posted by Mike
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 27, 2008 at 12:05 pm

OK I see your point. Engineers who buy insurance know more about global warming than scientists who don't buy insurance. Where do engineers buy their global warming insurance, and how can I find out which ones have it so I'll know which ones I should listen to?


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Posted by Walter E. Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 27, 2008 at 9:02 pm

Many scientists would be flipping burgers if they were not exagerating natural phenomena and adjusting numbers to scare up another grant. The success of industry scientists and of engineers is measurable. An engineer who uses an unvalidated predictive program to make decisions will soon be uninsurable and unemployable. Engineers are accountable, scientists are not. The "news" that glaciers are calving would surprise the owners of the Titanic.


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Posted by kudos to Walter
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 27, 2008 at 9:28 pm

Walter, that is GOOD..news of glaciers calving surprising the people on the Titanic!

Kinda gross, but so well said.


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Posted by Mike
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 27, 2008 at 9:35 pm

OK, so an engineer has insurance to pay for my funeral if I drive over his wrong bridge at the wrong time. That makes me feel much better. But those bridge gusseters need to show me evidence of their global warming insurance policy before I'll believe them more than climate scientists.


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Posted by Walter E. Wallis
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 28, 2008 at 5:26 am

Mike, pay attention. You challenge the statements of scientists and others who question the apocalyptic warmie warnings and antidotes, because they get paid, and yet assume the warmies like quarter million dollar Hansen or indulgence selling Gore do not benefit financially from their stand.
My challenge remains unanswered - plug in the results of complying with every demand of the warmies and demonstrate, with the warmie program, and show the difference it will make in the ultimate temperature. Basic to all the LibLudd motivation is the desire to reduce the world population to one billion people.


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Posted by perspective
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 28, 2008 at 6:51 am

by the way, fiddling, a "fear of" recession is not a recesssion, ..our papers have been full of "fears of" recession since Bush was elected, then re-elected, trying to scare people out of trusting Repubs with the economy, and Iraq IS going great, note how 30,000 IRAQI soldiers are dealing with Al-Sadr's last gasp, not American troops, and note the ever declining death rate from anti-democracy bombers and shooters( who are responsible for almost all deaths in Iraq in the last 4 years, and the earth hasn't warmed, in fact it has cooled, in recent years, and those who have been trying to fool everyone into handing over money and power to socialists are screaming in rage that the darn earth isn't cooperating.

But that's ok, let money do the talking...everyone who believes the earth will die unless they hand over their money to Gore and our government, feel free to give as much as you want.

The rest of us will keep employing and feeding people around the world.



 +   Like this comment
Posted by Mike
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 28, 2008 at 12:29 pm

Walter you miss my entire point. The warmies are getting paid by somebody out there and that somebody has enough cash to outbid Exxon Mobil and Shell and Chevron and the rest. I want to know who that somebody is. They must be very very big but nobody can find out who they are. I also think your bit about engineers and insurance is total sheep dip.


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